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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#2101 - 2014-10-02 01:17:39 UTC
My problem is " We are working with CSM to make changes" all the CSMs belong to NULL SOV holders. they should be the people who are not asked. They benefit from NOT fixing the system.

This is like asking the RICH if they want to be TAXED more. OF course they will say no.
Builder AlphaOne
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2102 - 2014-10-02 01:18:19 UTC
Pavlakakos wrote:
Aleks Cave wrote:
See, all you fekkers make fun of Proviblock...

BUT WE DONT SEE THEM COMPLAINING ABOUT TRAVEL CHANGES IN HERE, NOW DO WE?!?!??!

Damm panzies!


Nope. We actually love the idea of fighting BNI on even terms, without the PL batphone dropping 20 supers to save them :P

Besides, provi borders hisec. Less than 5 LY :P



***

Ah, but you may be complaining come February, oh Provi block. What happens when all of your favorite enemies become desperate for less than 5 ly access to high sec? And you've got it but they don't?

Did you maybe think that their decision might be to boot you out of Providence completely and take it for themselves? Then they'll have the access and you'll be scrounging through Amarr low sec looking for a new home -- which the current occupants won't like at all, will they?
Kah'Roor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2103 - 2014-10-02 01:19:05 UTC
Gut check time for CCP. If your counting plus votes and minus votes add 1 to the plus column. Will the change hurt me a little logistically....probably. Is that pain worth it to help the game...yes. Will these changes help the game yes imo. When the changes were floated an intense discussion began on comms. 30+ players, many who don't bother to log on and play much, were actually excited about the future of the game for the first time in a long time.
Keep the faith ccp, the burn down reset is needed and there are worse ways to start.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2104 - 2014-10-02 01:21:13 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Dont really care what happens to capitals, but these changes function as a full on nerf to blops and covert ops ships that use blops bridges. Blops and blops bridges should be excluded from these changes. But if CCP is hell bent on making them, then blops should finally be given covert op cloaks so they at least have some chance of getting home.


coops can just cloak up and wait out the time. Will mean fewer jumps per night, maybe, but my experience in bomber fleets is that you spend have the night waiting around anyway.

I foresee very minimal impact on the covert lifestyle for the vast majority of cloaky players.
Intaki RedDove
Medici Banking and Trading
#2105 - 2014-10-02 01:21:14 UTC
What about applying penalties on a constellation boundary by constellation boundary basis. Let it be less expensive to move within a constellation and much more expensive to move across constellation boundaries. While developmentally appealing, the linear statistical proposal is less interesting than the CCP commitment to "lumpiness". Let "geography" including constellation boundaries be a factor in war planning. It would give value to the notion of a systems within a constellation.

Also, this might give an advantage to defending force arrayed to protect a constellation over an invading force. Most military strategies recognize a "home field" advantage of this sort. Present huge penalties for jumps across constellation boundaries but reduced penalties for in-constellation jumps.

And, tax heavily for gate jump fees based on mass. Gates don't grow on trees! Maybe even tie this to system payouts that make a system worth holding.

However, unless other changes occur, eventually, the large forces at the high end of the Gini curve will simply keep multiple fleets moth balled around their edges. Income inequality from which so many null sec players benefit will make it even harder for small forces to exploit other "real life" advantages such as nimble deployments IF you use a flattened scaling jump penalty. Promote different play styles for players at different levels of play complexity / maturity.

Please make 0.0 something a single account can do w/o having to having multiple paid accounts!

Lastly, I also love these changes because the very same null sec weenies who taunted high sec industrialists over previous insane changes can now salt my popcorn with their tearful lamentations. Of course, it would have been more fun had I not relocated to null. I feel like that Civil War era farmer who moved after one battle only to relocate to the site of a future battle. If Greyscale isn't in the service of our Chinese server overlords, then I speculate that he's really my ex-wife.
Neesa Corrinne
Nyx Legion..
Breakpoint.
#2106 - 2014-10-02 01:21:40 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
The butt hurt is lovely.

When they ruined wormholes, you nullbears laughed and poked fun.


Remember this??
HTFU and stop whining



Does your wormhole's effect cause your tears to never dry?



Good God. If someone showed Alanis Morissette all of your posts in this thread, including this one, then maybe she would actually realize what irony is.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2107 - 2014-10-02 01:22:30 UTC
Kah'Roor wrote:
Gut check time for CCP. If your counting plus votes and minus votes add 1 to the plus column. Will the change hurt me a little logistically....probably. Is that pain worth it to help the game...yes. Will these changes help the game yes imo. When the changes were floated an intense discussion began on comms. 30+ players, many who don't bother to log on and play much, were actually excited about the future of the game for the first time in a long time.
Keep the faith ccp, the burn down reset is needed and there are worse ways to start.


This.
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2108 - 2014-10-02 01:22:34 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ranamar wrote:
Nobody seems to have commented on this, so...
When you say 5LY range, is that JDC V range?
Training JDC V sucks. Can I convince you to reduce the multiplier on the JDC skill and increase the base jump range on capitals to compensate?

Also, am I reading things correctly that the orange (no jump activation) timer gets set to whatever the blue (jump fatigue) timer says when you jump? (with it bottoming out at 1 minute) That seems like a nice, easy explanation that doesn't require any math beyond "Your jump fatigue gets multiplied after your jump." If it's not that, it really needs a better explanation.


5 LY at max skills. Skill balance is a thing we need to look at at some point, for sure.

Orange timer gets set to essentially 10% of the blue timer on jump, otherwise fatigue is always 0 when you jump. We're trying to make sure that it's clearly explained in the tooltips.


Since "Tuning the decay is definitely something we're open to." would you be opposed to the idea of changing JDC to adjust the rate of fatigue decay and simply setting all jump drives to the intended 5LY range? Spending 30 - 40 days of character training to be able to jump an extra half-LY is a pretty crappy deal.
Hiwashi
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#2109 - 2014-10-02 01:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiwashi
There has to be a hard cap on your maximum jump fatigue. Make it 3 weeks or a month?

How do you guys plan on dealing with people getting jump fatigue to ridiculous amounts and then trying to sell the character?

Resetting the fatigue for every transfer doesn't seem like a good idea, since rich people will just transfer the character between their own account and reset it that way.

Also this seems to be a huge nerf to JDC V as a rank 9 skill.

I like the idea of increasing carrier SMA for small groups/personal logistics.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#2110 - 2014-10-02 01:23:27 UTC
CCP Greyscale. Would it be possible to link this fatigue timer to the ship also as well as the capsuleer?

Also I believe black ops could use a reduction in the fatigue level accumulated, perhaps to half that of a regular capital.

And also a cap on the maximum fatigue possible would be good, perhaps 24 hours could be a hard limit.

Also I'm not keen on the blanket 5LY range.

JF 6LY
Carrier / Dread / Rorqual 5LY
BLOPS / Titan / Super 4LY
GODDESS GANJA
Vapor Trail
#2111 - 2014-10-02 01:24:08 UTC
How does this integrate with the Jump Drive Calibration skill ?
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2112 - 2014-10-02 01:24:42 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Well we have the tools now unless I'm missing something.


The manufacturing locations were changed. It still depends on having shipping of resources to/from Jita as most cannot be reasonably collected in-place where they can be collected at all.


Heaven forbid some goons have to go and do some mining locally to avoid several hours of logistics work.

A little bit of carebear duty will do you guys a world of good.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#2113 - 2014-10-02 01:24:46 UTC
Absocold wrote:
The fatigue system is WAY too complicated. "Hey guys, we want to form a fleet so everyone get out your algebra textbooks and calculators so we can figure out who can go and who can't - and god help you if you get your math wrong and we have to leave you behind."

A simple pool of available lightyears to jump and a timer that gives x number of lightyears back into the pool every x minutes would be much easier. "Hey guys, this fight is 7 lightyears away so if you don't have at least 14 lightyears available right now, don't join the fleet".


This.

The fatigue calculation seems overly unnecessary and adds nothing except confusion. The pool is much better, precise, clear and understandable method.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#2114 - 2014-10-02 01:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Instead of these changes, can we just make it so that you cant bridge within a pos and that a cyno cannot be done within 25k of a station or gate. Both would shake up lowsec and null, without such drastic limitations on jumpping in general.

As an aside, this fatige reminds me of the lock out timers that some other mmos have on their raid zones - a terrible mechnic which prevents folk from playing together when they want to. Now, when you want to form a fleet, people are going to have to use a calculator to figure out if they can go, folk are going to be excluded and interaction amongst players is not going to happen.

Also, EVE's claim to fame is the big fight - and the best big fights are those that start off by accident, that are unplanned. This fatige mechanic makes the chances of this unplanned big fight drasticlly less.

Finally, if ccp was really concerned about capital proliferation, why not get to the real heart of the problem, isk inflation and cost of capitals. Suck some of the isk out of the game and increase the cost of capitals and problem is solved without the need for complex gimics.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Blueclaws
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#2115 - 2014-10-02 01:25:17 UTC
CCP, I think I will just leave This here. \o/ Enjoy!
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2116 - 2014-10-02 01:28:08 UTC
Also a consideration is the market crash. I think people will get rid of their capitals and the production for such goods will drop through the ground. For the miners, such as myself, this means a substantial reduction in selling the goods that we have.

Shrug, its your funeral CCP, do what you will. For those of you that are for it, we will talk to you after a few months when there is no market for minerals and the only way you can make a living is ratting, (hey its how it use to be way back). For me it will be nice to scale back to one account and do the occasional ratting thing.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#2117 - 2014-10-02 01:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
So, if we're absolutely committed to this Fatigue idea, how about we cap fatigue at, say, 144?

That's 24 hours to work off all of your Fatigue, and a little under 2.5 hours between jumps. That keeps Fatigue from reaching the point where it takes weeks to work off, but still punishes long-distance travel.

Personally, I'd cap it at 60 Fatigue. That would take 10 hours to work off, and results in an hour between jumps (well, technically 54 minutes, but ya). That would still allow massive escalations like B-R to occur, in a manner, but slows down jump time considerably. I mean, honestly, for any jump distance longer than about 20 LY anyway, your best strategy is to just wait out the hour it takes to drop your fatigue after each 5-LY jump, so capping Fatigue at 60 simply enforces that behavior for long jump distances.
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2118 - 2014-10-02 01:29:02 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Dont really care what happens to capitals, but these changes function as a full on nerf to blops and covert ops ships that use blops bridges. Blops and blops bridges should be excluded from these changes. But if CCP is hell bent on making them, then blops should finally be given covert op cloaks so they at least have some chance of getting home.


No, take your medicine and suffer with the rest of us.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.

Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2119 - 2014-10-02 01:30:31 UTC
Builder AlphaOne wrote:


***

Ah, but you may be complaining come February, oh Provi block. What happens when all of your favorite enemies become desperate for less than 5 ly access to high sec? And you've got it but they don't?

Did you maybe think that their decision might be to boot you out of Providence completely and take it for themselves? Then they'll have the access and you'll be scrounging through Amarr low sec looking for a new home -- which the current occupants won't like at all, will they?




Heh... Grind 70+ stations in the worst area of New Eden? Just to find out that there are only 2-3 moons worthy and being constantly harrased by us poor slobs that got booted to lowsec? Just to get easier bear access to empire?? lol

Good luck paying the sov bills Big smile
NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2120 - 2014-10-02 01:30:37 UTC
Is it me or does this seems like an uncharacteristically heavy-handed balance pass? Some of these ideas could be great if you applied them more specifically but at this point you're just swinging the bat as you walk through the room. Thumbs down.