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[Oceanus] Interceptor Updates

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-09-17 22:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone! As CCP Seagull mentioned in her coming in Oceanus dev blog, we're following up with Interceptors and Interdictors this release to apply some more polish.

The most significant bits in this set of Interceptor changes are the adjustments to the Crow and Malediction (which are a bit too good in their light missile configurations currently) and the Raptor (which has been struggling to meaningfully distinguish itself from the venerable Taranis).

One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.


Crow:
Replace the 10% per level kinetic damage bonus with a 5% per level missile explosion radius bonus.
-1 Lowslot
+1 Highslot
+1 Launcher
+5 CPU

Malediction:
Restrict the missile RoF bonus to only apply to Rocket Launchers
+1 PWG
+141000 Mass
-0.65 Inertia
+35 Velocity

Raptor:
-1 Highslot
+1 Midslot
+2 PWG
+5 CPU
+51000 Mass
+0.05 Inertia

Ares:
Increase Small Hybrid tracking bonus from 7.5% to 10% per level
-40000 Mass
+0.1 Inertia
+40 Capacitor
+30s Capacitor Recharge Time

Stiletto:
-10000 Mass

Taranis:
-10000 Mass

Claw:
+5 Velocity

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-09-17 22:59:59 UTC
Whelp, time to sell my Maledictions.
Belen Shields
Iskender Kebap Corp
#3 - 2014-09-17 23:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Belen Shields
Decreasing the interia modifier of the malediction is a good feature. It should be More in line with the other inties now (3.6 now i guess). Cant say much about the others, no EFT avaiable right now.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#4 - 2014-09-17 23:07:16 UTC
These seem like reasonable changes.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Dr Jihad Alhariri
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#5 - 2014-09-17 23:17:11 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.


Does this RoF reduction include Rapid Light Missile Launchers?
Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-09-17 23:24:30 UTC
Long Crows

Short Mal's
Gorski Car
#7 - 2014-09-17 23:26:57 UTC
rip 4 speed mod + 3 speed rig lml maledictions. Those who will be sad shall not be named out of respect for their fitting skills.

Collect this post
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-09-17 23:30:49 UTC
Dr Jihad Alhariri wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.


Does this RoF reduction include Rapid Light Missile Launchers?


No, just the frigate sized LMLs.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Omega Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-09-17 23:31:03 UTC
exodus you can live in the zoo now
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#10 - 2014-09-17 23:32:43 UTC
Raptor buff \o/

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#11 - 2014-09-17 23:33:22 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
Raptor buff \o/

Raptor no longer worse than Atron confirmed

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#12 - 2014-09-17 23:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
good crow changes imo, but it should get some fitting to compensate the dmg bonus turning into a launcher. it's good that it's being moved away from best at literally everything and thus ships like the stiletto as a 4 mid 3 low tackler might actually see use again

the malediction doesnt really need the rof nerf to lmls, i think a more appropriate change would be changing the bonus to damage/level instead of rof and slightly buffing rocket damage if you want people to actually use them

raptor changes are great, it was complete **** compared to the ranis but the 4th mid will probably make it viable in a lot of situations

ares changes idk, i really liked the initial version with split weapons and double damage bonuses to both

mass changes are irrelivant

when you say rof reduction, i assume you mean a dps decrease as lmls are pretty dominant in frigate/destroyer sized fleets - so it's reasonable.


4 stars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-17 23:39:25 UTC
Most of the changes aren't too bad, though with the nerf to LMLs i don't think the restriction on the malediction is needed.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2014-09-17 23:48:32 UTC
when are you fixing light missiles, as you said you would about 2 years ago?
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#15 - 2014-09-17 23:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
following up on why the malediction restriction really isn't needed:

Top Ships
Crow
Crow 9,621
Sabre 8,598
Ishtar 6,477
Stiletto 5,864
Malediction 5,692
Loki 5,168
Proteus 4,360
Capsule 4,239
Caracal 4,207
Vexor 4,013

stiletto is even above male, and it doesn't see the same % usage in its class or even close to the current "problem" ships of crow/sabre/ishtar. the lml nerf alone nerfs the ship enough if you really think it needs one, but honestly it isn't seeing widespread use for a reason. the range bonus on the crow is one of the reasons it excels and lacking it puts the malediction at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of situations.
the tank bonus on the malediction is often irrelevant and the end result in restricting it would be a ship with half a bonus that never sees any use

i personally love the current malediction, and used to use it all the time to kill ratters with a friend - which would not be possible or even close to possible with rockets. the sole reason a crow could not do it was being locked into a damage type, which is going to be removed post patch. sure it's going to need creative fitting but the role will remain

the current malediction also does not overlap with the crow at all, the difference between a 30km range armor lml ceptor and a 60km shield lml ceptor is huge

it just feels like a change aimed at making rockets viable, as opposed to a tweak for the malediction - rockets currently are in a very bad state for this role in particular and i can't see the malediction being used with anything but 125mm gattling autos if this change went through. unless you are planning significant rocket fitting adjustments it just doesn't make sense to fit them over lmls and removing the lml bonus is not the solution to that problem

tldr plz dont nerf the malediction for no reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Reagalan
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2014-09-18 00:00:38 UTC
The crow change does not go nearly far enough, and by that I mean, it doesn't do what it needs to.

The problem with the crow and malediction is their extreme range. Not the dps, not the tank, not the mobility; it's the range that lets them kite all the other interceptors to death and practically everything else as well. It's the range that has driven them to the top.

The malediction fix (by applying its bonus only to rockets) is entirely reasonable and does do what it needs to, nerfs the range of the malediction. This should fix it.

This crow fix does not do that. This crow fix merely increases the amount of time needed for a crow to kill something. For some reason it has even gained a damage bonus against small targets, which will make this ship even higher on the interceptor ladder.

No changes to LMLs were needed (which also affect hawks and kestrels and other not-broken-at-all ships). No changes to the slot layout, none of this. The crow can be fixed by doing to it what was done with the malediction: make the bonus only apply to rockets.

That was all you needed to do.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2014-09-18 00:05:29 UTC
whats the intended effect of reducing the mass on ares so (from my perspective) drastically comnpared to the rest?
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#18 - 2014-09-18 00:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Reagalan wrote:
The crow change does not go nearly far enough, and by that I mean, it doesn't do what it needs to.

The problem with the crow and malediction is their extreme range. Not the dps, not the tank, not the mobility; it's the range that lets them kite all the other interceptors to death and practically everything else as well. It's the range that has driven them to the top.

The malediction fix (by applying its bonus only to rockets) is entirely reasonable and does do what it needs to, nerfs the range of the malediction. This should fix it.

This crow fix does not do that. This crow fix merely increases the amount of time needed for a crow to kill something. For some reason it has even gained a damage bonus against small targets, which will make this ship even higher on the interceptor ladder.

No changes to LMLs were needed (which also affect hawks and kestrels and other not-broken-at-all ships). No changes to the slot layout, none of this. The crow can be fixed by doing to it what was done with the malediction: make the bonus only apply to rockets.

That was all you needed to do.


idk i think you're overestimating this whole "kite to death" ****

the raisin the crow is so overpowered is it's a stiletto (read: 4 mids, 3 lows) with 60km range
the malediction is not in the same boat because it cannot fit the standard fleet tackle setup (mse, mwd, point, scram) and fitting a plate generally means gimping yourself in other ways (less nanos due to maux, guns instead of missiles etc). as a fleet ship the malediction can be strong sure but it is not format warping in the same way the crow is, as evidenced by killboards everywhere. being armor comes with inherent disadvantages but i won't go into that because i don't think its relevant to the malediction alone

crow needed nerfs because right now there is no reason to get into the old "king of tackle" aka the stiletto because it does literally the same things but also shoots 70 dps to 60km.
the malediction does not have the same impact, and would be receiving the 6%~ rof nerf anyway. the restriction just seems heavy handed and like it's been thrown in with the crow, when it really doesn't deserve to be.

i agree with you about the crow and i think these (very significant) nerfs will go a long way. it loses a damage bonus, gains a useless high and loses a low. end result will be a much weaker, much slower ship with the advantage of 60km range - the stiletto can once again compete as king of tackle with its pathetic armaments and is a good tradeoff in terms of speed etc vs application

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Legetus Shmoof Metallii
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2014-09-18 00:13:04 UTC
Yay Raptor Buff! I always preferred it to the Crow anyways... but I'm a crazy man... up until now!

O tempora o mores!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#20 - 2014-09-18 00:13:19 UTC
Capqu wrote:
it just feels like a change aimed at making rockets viable...


Javs and you can barely hit a target in OH scramrange if it's not AB'ing to quickly.
13.5k scram cold with 10k navy rockets isn't cool either.
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