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[Oceanus] Cyno Displacement Zone around starbases

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Inslander Wessette
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#181 - 2014-09-18 15:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Inslander Wessette
Dear CCP fozzie,

I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ?

Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc ..

So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km .

Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well .

ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u .

CCP trolling on the little guys as usual .

guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is .

or join a power block u'll eventually get there
raging star
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2014-09-18 15:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: raging star
Vhaine Vhindiscar wrote:
Terrible change.

It's arbitrary and bad mechanics. A bandaid on a problem that really only affects that 1%. How about taking it back to the drawing board and seeing if you can't come up with a solution that doesn't affect ALL of null sec just to fix a problem that really only is an issue for a small minority of the players.

Honestly, how long will you let super caps define the play of the entire null sec population? Isn't it time to stop catering to them? Fix the problem, but don't go creating a whole laundry list of issues in the process. Surely, you guys can fix an exploit without resorting to a sledge hammer in the process...




So hate to agree, making a change this major affects everyone just to please a few and makes it harder for small corps or alliances to operated in null or low sec.
LtCol RTButts
Abandon AII Hope
#183 - 2014-09-18 15:38:04 UTC
Inslander Wessette wrote:
Dear CCP fozzie,

I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ?

Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc ..

So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km .

Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well .

ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u .

CCP trolling on the little guys as usual .

guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is .

or join a power block u'll eventually get there


lesson one,

evey cyno alt is an unsave cyno after he had lit his first cyno. plain and simple. solve this problem and you increase your survivability.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#184 - 2014-09-18 15:47:36 UTC
I find this change very interesting.

This will certainly shake up capital activities abit, especially if this also applies to Titan bridging, no more poking nose out for bridge.

I believe the hardest hit though will be jump freighters though, as you will no longer be able to jump in right next to the sheilds. Slow boating in from 25KM out is not really an option for a JF when you got a lit cyno anouncing you presence.

This is going to cause some significant changes to basic EVE mechanics.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#185 - 2014-09-18 15:50:19 UTC
Inslander Wessette wrote:
Dear CCP fozzie,

I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ?

Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc ..

So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km .

Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well .

ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u .

CCP trolling on the little guys as usual .

guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is .

or join a power block u'll eventually get there

if only there was some sort of capital ship that could haul 150k+ m^3 and could fit an MWD
El Space Mariachi
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#186 - 2014-09-18 15:56:49 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Inslander Wessette wrote:
Dear CCP fozzie,

I'll give a situation which u will solve for me ?

Assuming U own 5 poses in a system say in "Khanid" region say "Upt" which has no stations 3 jumps out . And u wanna do maintenance on ur pos .. fuel , taking moon goo etc ..

So u cyno in ur JF 150km from the tower cos i'm sure ur not gonna slow boat 25km in a Rhea into the shields.. u use an alt to deploy Cyno Jammer , Scan inhibitor yada yada yada .. U even use a Rapier to web ur JF to warp from 150km .

Le me scouting systems .. see u doing this i pass by .. i jus add u to watch list . 1 month later .. U do the same thing .. jus that i'll b having a 30 man ishtar fleet with 6 guardians cyoned in the adjacent system.. enuf to kill u b4 the pos guns even target us .. cos u cant call back up thru cyno ..cos ur own cyno jammer is up and running for good effect . Ur rapier is toast as well .

ur pos goes outta fuel soon cos ofc u cant fuel it buddy . Might as well write down ur pos to me . cos if u are gonna run 10 jumps to high sec in an iteron 5 with moon goo and fuel i'm gonna enjoy camping u .

CCP trolling on the little guys as usual .

guys who are about to face this situation - end subscription as soon as possible best solution there is .

or join a power block u'll eventually get there

if only there was some sort of capital ship that could haul 150k+ m^3 and could fit an MWD


well maybe he doesnt WANT to train a rorqual GOD why cant he just align down in his jf???

gay gamers for jesus
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#187 - 2014-09-18 15:59:56 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
if only there was some sort of capital ship that could haul 150k+ m^3 and could fit an MWD

no time to figure out how to play the game, too busy replacing "you" with "u" in my posts

busy busy busy
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#188 - 2014-09-18 16:00:44 UTC
I would say a better solution would be to simply exclude physics interactions between ships that are permitted to be inside of the pos shield and those that are not. But that would require you to actually look into that dreaded pos code now wouldn't it?
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#189 - 2014-09-18 16:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Parthannun Solette wrote:
so now you cant get an rorq to jump close to an forcefield anymore and so possibly get killed because it takes ages to move the thing

Because Rorquals dont have warp drives.

My feedback:
I dont like the fix, it reduces situation awareness when fighting at POS grid.
Also, carriers delegating fighters at field edge can feel safer now.
Drak Fel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#190 - 2014-09-18 16:07:21 UTC
You should really make it so that you can still light a cyno withing 25km but ships jumping in land beyond 25km.

Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#191 - 2014-09-18 16:08:39 UTC
Drak Fel wrote:
Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between.

Don't fly in between then? Roll
Overman
Malum Industria
#192 - 2014-09-18 16:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Overman
Really curious why this was thought to be the best solution. Instead of say, increasing the mass of the Titan during bridging to prevent it from being bumped or simply setting where ifcynowithin5kofforcefield=1 then bros land after jumping at 5k>.

I understand Ockham wasn't Icelandic or anything, but you guys might look into simple solutions for simple problems.



ps - I get it. Must protect the beloved Mach Bumping mechanic to provide <3 titan kills and the mass option would create issues and tears. But, maybe relying on machs bumping out titans as a source of actual rare titan content is an entirely different issue that needs to be addressed.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#193 - 2014-09-18 16:30:07 UTC
I too thought it would be better to say "guyz, don't do this" and then just ban everybody who did it, but meh...
Drak Fel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#194 - 2014-09-18 16:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Drak Fel
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Drak Fel wrote:
Capitals/Supers/Titans in the 25km deadzone will not be able to light a cyno to even attempt to save themselves if they are tackled in between.

Don't fly in between then? Roll


Because a titan has never bumped a little out of a shield. He should still be permitted to light a cyno to try to save himself when he is. This is bad for everyone with a super/titan, not just one group.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#195 - 2014-09-18 16:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
What about this solution?
Right now, jump-in point is not legit, if [distance from ship center to POS tower] < [field radius].
Change the rule to: "jump-in point is not legit, if [distance from ship center to POS tower] + [ship radius] < [field radius]".
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2014-09-18 16:43:38 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Parthannun Solette wrote:
so now you cant get an rorq to jump close to an forcefield anymore and so possibly get killed because it takes ages to move the thing

Because Rorquals dont have warp drives.

My feedback:
I dont like the fix, it reduces situation awareness when fighting at POS grid.
Also, carriers delegating fighters at field edge can feel safer now.

random proposal: for the purposes of drones and YOUR targeting, while in the exclusion zone you count as in the pos shields (so you can be shot at, but not shoot)

kills shield-hugging which is a dumb mechanic

problematic side effect is it kills unbonused ships from being able to rep pos or pos mods (and since nothing has a bonus to hull reps, ends hull repping)

hrmm, may need to rethink that
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2014-09-18 17:05:37 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:


This is the worst type of 'CCP doesn't play their own game' solution.


Welcome to Hyperion wh changes... We already know the above.

But since ye all came over to the wh forum and gave advice.

I'll return the favour: get the lube and bend over.
Overman
Malum Industria
#198 - 2014-09-18 17:05:58 UTC
Additionally, I'm curious why the added risk to capitals cynoing outside the pos is now desirable. The entire impetus for this change was SOCO crying about lighting bridges on the edge of POS' being too risky.

Was the game mechanic THAT broken before that it needs an ad-hoc fix with far reaching implications? Is this some well thought out change that CCP has been testing for months and contemplating various contingencies for? I don't think so.

This is why CCP gets so much crap. This is really an awful change that has not been very well thought out in response to emotional feedback from a titan lost last week.

If you want to validate your rule or prevent the "exploit," then just do that. Make a narrowly tailored change and move on making this game better. Issues like these create wastes of time 6 months down the line when CCP realizes, yet again, that it acted too hastily.

Ignoring the actual annoyance of this change, take a minute to contemplate the wasted man hours that will go into fixing this issue again when all the ramifications are realized. Those man hours translate to real life money and inefficiencies that affect the bottom line.

It's disheartening that someone even has to say this, but Measure Twice Cut Once.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#199 - 2014-09-18 17:10:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.


This thread couldn't get any better if it tried.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
True Payne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#200 - 2014-09-18 17:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: True Payne
You know! I have been playing since 2006 and this is the worst idea CCP has ever came up with! Now every Super/Capital/JF/Roqs will be very vulnerable when jumping in. So now that ohsh*t cyno means nothing just inside that Exclusion zone!!! How about CCP makes Titans itself have that Exclusion Zone... Your putting a lazy Band-aid on the Problem. Stop Screwing the rest of eve with these pointless fixes..