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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#761 - 2014-09-12 18:01:59 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27

After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.


Really reaching for straws today aren't you Beers.


Not at all. I feel that this kind of stuff leads to the insults etc... that the gankers are complaining about. If they would cut the goading out, 90% of the situations would never escalate to the "needs petition" level. Play the game to accomplish things in the game, not to see how angry/upset you can make people.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#762 - 2014-09-12 18:02:12 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27

After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.


It's in game, against the in game character and persona and as such it's fine.
It's also a tradition/meme that spans many MMO's.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#763 - 2014-09-12 18:03:17 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I feel...


Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#764 - 2014-09-12 18:04:18 UTC
Wheaton's Law, people. It's four words. "Don't be a ****."

It's not difficult to understand, and it's not that high a bar to clear, either. I keep saying this, but if CCP is forced to actually make a binding definition in that regard, it's probably going to leave a sizable chunk of the EVE player base screaming about how restrictive it is. And they'll only have themselves to blame.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#765 - 2014-09-12 18:05:35 UTC
"prove you were doxxed by dumping the evidence, evidence that includes your personal information" ~ evepal and his other alts

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#766 - 2014-09-12 18:07:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
"prove you were doxxed by dumping the evidence, evidence that includes your personal information" ~ evepal and his other alts


I noticed this myself, hence why I mentioned in a previous response to him that as far as I know, he could well be the doxer in question using a new alt. The one that hit me had six toons at the time, all bazaar-bought.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#767 - 2014-09-12 18:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence

i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#768 - 2014-09-12 18:08:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence

i guess he was told he was special as a child, and this gives him that notion
Generation Y poster child?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#769 - 2014-09-12 18:09:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I feel...


Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours.


Good derail. Objective moderation can be based on disallowing comments that serve no purpose other than to further inflame already upset people for the sole purpose of getting them to make angry comments which can then publicly be posted to humiliate them. Ganking, scamming, etc...fine. Do it to your heart's content. And feel free to reach out to the victim and explain what you did, and teach him a new aspect of gameplay, if he is receptive. But there is no reason to comment just to **** him off more, and see if you can drive him to things like racial epithets, real life threats, etc.... that are against the game rules. It's not rocket science, it's just common decency.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#770 - 2014-09-12 18:09:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence

i guess he was told he was special as a child, and this gives him that notion
Generation Y poster child?


I never got this generational thing. All I know is I was born in the 80s, and nothing good came out of the 80s. Pirate

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#771 - 2014-09-12 18:09:51 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27

After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.


reprehensible
1
adj bringing or deserving severe rebuke or censure
Synonyms:
condemnable, criminal, deplorable, vicious
wrong
contrary to conscience or morality or law

Conscience - Not required for EvE. Infact, it gets in the way. No matter who you are or what you do, you will ignore it from time to time in this game. Everyone does. The OP, player-Devs, Veers, Chirba, Bill Paxton, Me, everyone.

Morality - See above

Law - Criminal is a perfectly normal andacceptable career path in this game. It is even advertised as oen you can choose.


Therefore, yes, reprehensible, but it is a perfectly normal part of EvE.

If you dont agree, well, tough, you're wrong.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Josef Djugashvilis
#772 - 2014-09-12 18:11:58 UTC
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence

i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof


If you do not tell your children that they are indeed special, you are doing it wrong.

This is not a signature.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#773 - 2014-09-12 18:12:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I never got this generational thing. All I know is I was born in the 80s, and nothing good came out of the 80s. Pirate


the internet

oh wait

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#774 - 2014-09-12 18:12:58 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I feel...


Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours.


Good derail. Objective moderation can be based on disallowing comments that serve no purpose other than to further inflame already upset people for the sole purpose of getting them to make angry comments which can then publicly be posted to humiliate them. Ganking, scamming, etc...fine. Do it to your heart's content. And feel free to reach out to the victim and explain what you did, and teach him a new aspect of gameplay, if he is receptive. But there is no reason to comment just to **** him off more, and see if you can drive him to things like racial epithets, real life threats, etc.... that are against the game rules. It's not rocket science, it's just common decency.


Oh Beers, your whole spiel is based on an assumption of the purpose. Your premise is broken as a result, thereby making your conclusion irrelevant.

Fact of the matter is, there isn't a qq post that goes by on these forums without a 'can i haz your stuff' comment thrown in by someone. If it wasn't someone that did gank him, it would have been someone who had nothing to do with. What then Beers?

And I don't see you getting up in arms about the venom dripping from LS's comments. Come on Mr White Knight Forum Warrior, go to town on that ****.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#775 - 2014-09-12 18:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Fact of the matter is, there isn't a qq post that goes by on these forums without a 'can i haz your stuff' comment thrown in by someone.
Speaking of which, Veers, can I have your stuff when you finally realise that you don't actually like Eve, just the premise of Eve?

I'll even cover the cost of fumigating it P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#776 - 2014-09-12 18:20:44 UTC
also, I'm pretty sure it's only tu quoque if the accusations are true

is evepal admitting to have doxxed remiel?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#777 - 2014-09-12 18:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
For those that does not seem to understand what CCP Falcon said.

Play the Ship, not the person behind the screen.

Simple concept to play EVE by. Follow it and you never have to worry about a ban.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2014-09-12 18:23:06 UTC
Andski wrote:
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence

i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof

i know right? "Evidence" and "proof". pfft. Where I come from word is bond, son!

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#779 - 2014-09-12 18:36:52 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
For those that does not seem to understand what CCP Falcon said.

Play the Ship, not the person behind the screen.

Simple concept to play EVE by. Follow it and you never have to worry about a ban.


I am practically the antithesis of Cannibal Kane; I almost never agree with him.

I agree with Cannibal Kane on this one.

If we're on the same side of the line here ... and you're on the other side of that line...

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#780 - 2014-09-12 18:36:53 UTC
i mean really even when he did post the evidence on his personal blog (and he took down the post later) people asserted that it was faked because there is absolutely no way CCP would disregard something like that

those of us who have dealt with GMs in the past know that they aren't consistent and that they are far from impartial

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar