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Plea for tolerance in gaming community

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Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2014-09-03 02:02:15 UTC
Is this more of that Anita Sarkeesian garbage? I unfollowed PC Gamer when they posted it. I play games to unwind, not to be lectured to by some "humanities" major. It was bad enough when I was required to take some of those terrible courses as part of my degree. Frankly, I should have been the one getting paid to sit through that crap.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#42 - 2014-09-03 02:05:43 UTC
So, the gaming press is still a thing, is it?

So hard to keep track of it when doing unrelated things, like playing video games.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#43 - 2014-09-03 02:55:06 UTC
can people just stop being crybaby bitchs and learn to nut the **** up. The world should be tollerant people should learn to have a thick skin.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#44 - 2014-09-03 03:44:35 UTC
The bandwagon rolls on.

Being a part of and knowing this community makes reading that article a dose of Haterade. But it felt necessary to share what the internet white knight manboobs are writing.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-09-03 04:25:26 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
3. You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

See, this is a missed opportunity. If the National Socialist party wanted to make a corp in EVE and carve out some sov of the blue donut, CCP should let them, then advertise that in Eve, you can shoot space ****s. Because honestly, who doesn't want to shoot space ****s?
Drilla
Core Excavation Technologies
#46 - 2014-09-03 04:33:03 UTC
It would be funny if EVE got dragged into this whole crapstorm - there is one universal rule (both RL and ingame) - do not, under any circumstance, unite the EVE playerbase in a common goal.

4chan, reddit etc. is kids stuff compared to the global wrath that would come from the EVE community being dragged into it.

That said - the Quinnspiracy Theory series on YT is quite interresting - haven't made my mind up but they certainly shed some light on the whole subject.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#47 - 2014-09-03 05:19:18 UTC
There is in-game tolerance, and there is real tolerance. For example, in game I am utterly intolerant of miners and explorers in low sec. This is fine, and not what the OP is talking about.

I think the homophobic, sexist, racist, etc... rants i see on occasion (usually after I shoot someone) are a blight on this community.

While I agree EVE is a tough game, and people should have a thick skin, they should be thick skinned for in-game actions (getting killed, scammed, prodded, ganked, having your loot stolen, etc...) you should be able to stand up to some friendly banter in local, perhaps some psych-warfare intended to make you act like a fool.

The moment you start hurling racist remarks around, you have moved into the arena of real life threats and harassment. This is not cool (and often only makes you look like a simple minded bigot without actually insulting or inflaming the other party.) in most of the comments above I get the impression people are confusing the two.

I think people should be extremely thin skinned about behaviour such as this. Make a stand and let people know this filth is simply not acceptable. Call it out when you see this, whether it's a miner whining about just being suicide ganked or one of your corp mates calling someone in local gay for fitting warp stabs.

As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.
Drilla
Core Excavation Technologies
#48 - 2014-09-03 05:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Drilla
Trevor Dalech wrote:
...
I think people should be extremely thin skinned about behaviour such as this. Make a stand and let people know this filth is simply not acceptable. Call it out when you see this, whether it's a miner whining about just being suicide ganked or one of your corp mates calling someone in local gay for fitting warp stabs.

As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.


What a load of garbage - so you aren't allowed to roleplay anymore according to your standards.

What is ingame is ingame - you can say whatever you want about the ingame character - if you move the conversation to clearly be about reallife then there is a cross over but I should be able to say anything I want ingame to an ingame character - if not let's crack down on awoxing, theft, scam etc. - you can't have it both ways.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-09-03 05:47:58 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:
As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.


While I wholeheartedly also think that this world should be a more tolerant one, these "calls" or "pleas for tolerance" usually hide the most intolerant and ignorant sacks of meat that ever walked the earth.

At the very least, this one seems to be quite... "neutral" and moderate, however I'm seeing it being grabbed by both extremist sides of this conundrum, and twisted around in 1001 ways to serve whatever attention-seeking purposes they trying to achieve, ergo, why I think we won't get much out of this.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#50 - 2014-09-03 06:04:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
*sigh* 😩

Edit: for clarification I'm sighing at some posters in this thread.

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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-09-03 06:11:35 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
*sigh* 😩

yeah, if only people kept civil about it and if only there wasn't any monetary gain from all of this.



well, now that I think of it, if there wasn't any monetary gain from this, things wouldn't go as far as they didLol

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-09-03 06:23:41 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:
There is in-game tolerance, and there is real tolerance. For example, in game I am utterly intolerant of miners and explorers in low sec. This is fine, and not what the OP is talking about.

I think the homophobic, sexist, racist, etc... rants i see on occasion (usually after I shoot someone) are a blight on this community...

As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.

Double plus good. We are raising your chocolate rations from 7 grams to 6 grams.

Tolerance is allowing the National Socialist Party of America to march through Skokie, Illinois. Tolerance is allowing the Westboro Baptists to protest and hold vile signs outside a military funeral. Tolerance is when gay counter-protesters show up with their own vile signs, and a fight doesn't break out. Tolerance is what you show to the @#$%&*#s and jerks that you have to sit next to on the bus, and it's a necessary, if at times unpleasant, component for any pluralistic society to continue to function.

What you want? It's called civility. Now civility's a good thing; the world would be better if there was more of it. But the problem with calling for civility (going back to the larger issue here) is that it requires the caller to practice it, which is not something he can do when he insists that the other side has a mental illness, is consumed with hate, or just plain stupid as a starting point. Instead, he actually has to listen to them and treat the people he disagrees with as rational people. But, if he calls the other "intolerant," well, that gives him permission to practice real intolerance and experience the sense of self-righteousness if and when he expels those he disagrees with from their communities. This is why this call for tolerance-that-isn't-really-tolerance isn't going to do anything, and why this issue is only going to get worse.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#53 - 2014-09-03 06:32:21 UTC
Drilla wrote:
Trevor Dalech wrote:
...
I think people should be extremely thin skinned about behaviour such as this. Make a stand and let people know this filth is simply not acceptable. Call it out when you see this, whether it's a miner whining about just being suicide ganked or one of your corp mates calling someone in local gay for fitting warp stabs.

As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.


What a load of garbage - so you aren't allowed to roleplay anymore according to your standards.

What is ingame is ingame - you can say whatever you want about the ingame character - if you move the conversation to clearly be about reallife then there is a cross over but I should be able to say anything I want ingame to an ingame character - if not let's crack down on awoxing, theft, scam etc. - you can't have it both ways.


Calling someone a stupid, dirty, asteroid hugging Minmatar is role playing.

Calling someone a stupid filthy ****** is not.

Someone's race or sexual orientation is real life. Being intolerant of that is no longer role playing.

I have no problem with awoxing, theft, scams, etc... And never said I did. I do have problems with racism (not EVE races, real ones...) sexism, homophobia, and other such bigotry. It's plain wrong, you are excluding people from the game not due to how they are (role) playing but how they are IRL.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#54 - 2014-09-03 06:38:43 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:

Tolerance is allowing the National Socialist Party of America to march through Skokie, Illinois. Tolerance is allowing the Westboro Baptists to protest and hold vile signs outside a military funeral. Tolerance is when gay counter-protesters show up with their own vile signs, and a fight doesn't break out. Tolerance is what you show to the @#$%&*#s and jerks that you have to sit next to on the bus, and it's a necessary, if at times unpleasant, component for any pluralistic society to continue to function.

All the examples you just described are of one group being tolerant of another intolerant group. The purpose of a call for "tolerance" is directed at the intolerant group, not the one who is already demonstrating it. I think you're arguing semantics when the idea is a fairly simple one: sign up to support halting the spreading prejudices and bigotry.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-09-03 06:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Derrick Miles wrote:
Komi Toran wrote:

Tolerance is allowing the National Socialist Party of America to march through Skokie, Illinois. Tolerance is allowing the Westboro Baptists to protest and hold vile signs outside a military funeral. Tolerance is when gay counter-protesters show up with their own vile signs, and a fight doesn't break out. Tolerance is what you show to the @#$%&*#s and jerks that you have to sit next to on the bus, and it's a necessary, if at times unpleasant, component for any pluralistic society to continue to function.

All the examples you just described are of one group being tolerant of another intolerant group. The purpose of a call for "tolerance" is directed at the intolerant group, not the one who is already demonstrating it. I think you're arguing semantics when the idea is a fairly simple one: sign up to support halting the spreading prejudices and bigotry.

As the text is built, it is something I would sign, if it wasn't locked already, however it *will* be the intolerant ones that will rally behind these calls and pleas, since this whole mess has been mostly what it seems to be the bickering of a very vocal minority (extremists), with a few people with either an economical agenda or just trying to get more brownie points with said people, trying to fan the flames even more.


...wait, did I just made a crude explanation of what it is and how fundamentalism works?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Drilla
Core Excavation Technologies
#56 - 2014-09-03 06:53:01 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:
Drilla wrote:
Trevor Dalech wrote:
...
I think people should be extremely thin skinned about behaviour such as this. Make a stand and let people know this filth is simply not acceptable. Call it out when you see this, whether it's a miner whining about just being suicide ganked or one of your corp mates calling someone in local gay for fitting warp stabs.

As such, I whole heartedly agree with this call for tolerance, and would love CCP as company doing so as well. Since two devs signed up for it, and rules for tolerant behaviour are already in the EULA, I interpret this as being the case.


What a load of garbage - so you aren't allowed to roleplay anymore according to your standards.

What is ingame is ingame - you can say whatever you want about the ingame character - if you move the conversation to clearly be about reallife then there is a cross over but I should be able to say anything I want ingame to an ingame character - if not let's crack down on awoxing, theft, scam etc. - you can't have it both ways.


Calling someone a stupid, dirty, asteroid hugging Minmatar is role playing.

Calling someone a stupid filthy ****** is not.

Someone's race or sexual orientation is real life. Being intolerant of that is no longer role playing.

I have no problem with awoxing, theft, scams, etc... And never said I did. I do have problems with racism (not EVE races, real ones...) sexism, homophobia, and other such bigotry. It's plain wrong, you are excluding people from the game not due to how they are (role) playing but how they are IRL.


As I said - reallife stuff is crossing the line - but calling someone gay, idiot etc. ingame has no bearing in reallife.

You are mixing it up and it will cause unnecessary 'stress' on CCP GMs to police that.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#57 - 2014-09-03 06:54:09 UTC
I will say this just once:

Videogames are not worth of activism and deserve no more time than to write a one-liner.
Flay Nardieu
#58 - 2014-09-03 07:04:55 UTC
Different stroke for different folks, hell I say if someone uses a slur against you run with it, own it, then turn it back on them. As a straight male if some bigot uses a homophobic slur against me I'd agree sarcastically then play up on making a pass at them.

Nobody knows who or what you are behind the keyboard unless you let them, men (or boys) play as female characters and many female players play as men (and only use voice with trusted friends) When someone spouts off ignorant stuff it doesn't reflect on you it reflects on them. Forcing a PC mentality is moronic, let people say what they think unless the are trying to organize some form of real harm to a person so be it.

People disagree (especially with me Lol as quoted replies to some of my posts can verify)
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-09-03 07:11:04 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
All the examples you just described are of one group being tolerant of another intolerant group. The purpose of a call for "tolerance" is directed at the intolerant group, not the one who is already demonstrating it. I think you're arguing semantics when the idea is a fairly simple one: sign up to support halting the spreading prejudices and bigotry.

So the Westboro Baptists are being tolerant of the intolerant gay counter-protestors, and the gay counter-protestors are being tolerant of the intolerant Westboro Baptists? That makes absolutely no sense, but do carry on.
Shin Ja
Create Corporation
#60 - 2014-09-03 07:52:23 UTC
gaming is our hobby why would we bring this crap into it