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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1221 - 2016-12-23 13:08:11 UTC
In order of most important skills for the team burner I'd say it's missile range related skills (4 at least, speed first then burn time) Caldari frig 5 and it may be worth it to grab a missile range implant.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1222 - 2016-12-23 16:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Yes, used Nova. It's entirely possible I did something else wrong, but I don't know what. I'll give it one more shot at level 4 rocket specialization. I have both frig skills to 5, and the distance/velocitys skill to 5 each (range with scripts is 28km). The only other missile skills not at 5 are precision (4) and warheads (4), well, and of course Rocket Specialization 3.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1223 - 2016-12-23 19:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
Yes, used Nova. It's entirely possible I did something else wrong, but I don't know what. I'll give it one more shot at level 4 rocket specialization. I have both frig skills to 5, and the distance/velocitys skill to 5 each (range with scripts is 28km). The only other missile skills not at 5 are precision (4) and warheads (4), well, and of course Rocket Specialization 3.


rocket spec is only usfull for t2 rockets if i remember right. how about missile launcher operation, rapid launch and the rockets skill? all 5 ?

with the crosslinks you should reach 240 dps unheated without imps at all 5.
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1224 - 2016-12-23 20:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Thanks for the responses, here is the info asked for

Guided Missile Precision 4
Missile Bombardment 5
Missile Launcher Operation 5
Missile Projection 5
Rapid Launch 5
Rockets 5
Rocket Specialization 3
Target Navigation Prediction 5
Warhead Upgrades 4

As to whether Rocket Specialization affects the damage - every outfitting tool I use, including the Simulation Mode built into EVE itself, shows an increase from specialization. My damage was 215 without OH in the tool until I obtained specialization 2 and 3, now it shows 225. It's possible they're wrong, but for all 3 different tools (including EVE itself) to show the same output sets the odds against it.

I just checked the damage out with my alt who also has rockets 5 but a lower specialization and his damage shows lower in the simulation.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1225 - 2016-12-23 20:06:43 UTC
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
Thanks for the responses, here is the info asked for

Guided Missile Precision 4
Missile Bombardment 5
Missile Launcher Operation 5
Missile Projection 5
Rapid Launch 5
Rockets 5
Rocket Specialization 3
Target Navigation Prediction 5
Warhead Upgrades 4

As to whether Rocket Specialization affects the damage - every outfitting tool I use, including the Simulation Mode built into EVE itself, shows an increase from specialization. My damage was 215 without OH in the tool until I obtained specialization 2 and 3, now it shows 225. It's possible they're wrong, but for all 3 different tools (including EVE itself) to show the same output sets the odds against it.

I just checked the damage out with my alt who also has rockets 5 but a lower specialization and his damage shows lower in the simulation.

yeah i was wrong with rocket spec Blink with that and warhead 5 you should reach the 240.
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1226 - 2016-12-24 14:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Clennel
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
Thanks for the responses, here is the info asked for

Guided Missile Precision 4
Missile Bombardment 5
Missile Launcher Operation 5
Missile Projection 5
Rapid Launch 5
Rockets 5
Rocket Specialization 3
Target Navigation Prediction 5
Warhead Upgrades 4

As to whether Rocket Specialization affects the damage - every outfitting tool I use, including the Simulation Mode built into EVE itself, shows an increase from specialization. My damage was 215 without OH in the tool until I obtained specialization 2 and 3, now it shows 225. It's possible they're wrong, but for all 3 different tools (including EVE itself) to show the same output sets the odds against it.

I just checked the damage out with my alt who also has rockets 5 but a lower specialization and his damage shows lower in the simulation.


This really is puzzling. I run these all day long with 224 DPS from my Garmur. Maxed skills (except for Rocket Spec -- only 4) Enyo and Hawk (the ones not requiring an ammo change) each take around 3 minutes to finish. Even before I had Guided Missile Precision 5 (edited - had wrong skill in there) maxed out I never had problems.

Our fits are pretty similar as well - I use more T2 - no faction or deadspace stuff. Even so, with the similar DPS numbers I would think your results would be similar as well.

And the strategy ain't that tough: orbit burner, shoot logi, shoot other logi, shoot burner.

Which brings back to my first statement: this really is puzzling.

Final thought: Forgive the dumb question: you are using CALDARI NAVY Nova rockets and not the plain (or some other variant) Nova rockets, right?

EDIT: I see now why my 224 DPS is not the same as your 224 DPS. Explosion radius. It's impossible for a fitting tool to factor this into a DPS calculation without knowing your targets' specific speed and sig radius. Between the T2 rig I use and the Guided Missile Precision skill this explains why my 224 DPS was more effective than your 224 DPS. NB: GMP was the last missile skill I maxxed and ran TONS of these missions before I got it to lvl 5.


[Garmur, TBR]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Peripheral Compact Target Painter

Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher

Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket x3196
Missile Range Script x2
Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x3030
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x2034
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket x1011
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x2966
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1227 - 2016-12-24 14:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Clennel wrote:

Final thought: Forgive the dumb question: you are using CALDARI NAVY Nova rockets and not the plain (or some other variant) Nova rockets, right?


[Garmur, TBR]
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Peripheral Compact Target Painter

Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher
Polarized Rocket Launcher

Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket x3196
Missile Range Script x2
Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x3030
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x2034
Mjolnir Javelin Rocket x1011
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x2966



Yeah, used Caldari Navy Novas. I'm up to 230 before OH now, and I'm considering moving some skill points around to get that up as I have some science skills I don't need anymore (I'm looking at you, Research Project Management). I have been trying to figure out what (if anything) I could have done wrong, and the only thing I could have screwed up is the target painter or the range scripts. I'm certain I had the TP going, and I don't remember missing any volleys(except at the very beginning when it pulled range for a moment), so even if the scripts were off (I'm 90% certain I had them on) I was hitting.

You're using a similar fitting to Anize's cheap fit, and when I looked at hers in comparison to Ploing's, Ploing's had more dps and more range with only a difference in the optimal range for the TP. Yours uses a T2 rig for damage application, Ploing's and Anize's uses a T1 (their range rigs are T2) so maybe the application has been making enough of a difference for you.
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1228 - 2016-12-24 19:22:16 UTC
You must have been replying as I was editing:

Quote:
EDIT: I see now why my 224 DPS is not the same as your 224 DPS. Explosion radius. It's impossible for a fitting tool to factor this into a DPS calculation without knowing your targets' specific speed and sig radius. Between the T2 rig I use and the Guided Missile Precision skill this explains why my 224 DPS was more effective than your 224 DPS. NB: GMP was the last missile skill I maxxed and ran TONS of these missions before I got it to lvl 5.


So you while you can chase a higher DPS number, it may not be as effective as you'd hope without taking explosion radius into account. The 224 DPS I'm sporting (with all level 5 skill except Rocket Spec) is PLENTY to get these missions done with EASE. And I'm serious when I say I've done these hundreds of times . . .
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1229 - 2016-12-24 19:39:16 UTC
Clennel wrote:
You must have been replying as I was editing:

Quote:
EDIT: I see now why my 224 DPS is not the same as your 224 DPS. Explosion radius. It's impossible for a fitting tool to factor this into a DPS calculation without knowing your targets' specific speed and sig radius. Between the T2 rig I use and the Guided Missile Precision skill this explains why my 224 DPS was more effective than your 224 DPS. NB: GMP was the last missile skill I maxxed and ran TONS of these missions before I got it to lvl 5.


So you while you can chase a higher DPS number, it may not be as effective as you'd hope without taking explosion radius into account. The 224 DPS I'm sporting (with all level 5 skill except Rocket Spec) is PLENTY to get these missions done with EASE. And I'm serious when I say I've done these hundreds of times . . .



on the other hand i made tests with a precision script and the damage applicated was the same as before.
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1230 - 2016-12-24 19:57:29 UTC
I just did a test against the Vengeance burner.

Time to complete (using "Free Stopwatch" Windows app):

Lap 4 00:00:53.39 00:03:58.39
Lap 3 00:00:19.14 00:03:04.99 (yeah, yeah, I was slow reloading)
Lap 2 00:00:49.96 00:02:45.85
Lap 1 00:01:55.88 00:01:55.88 (OH guns to 50% damage on armor)

Sample combat log from first logi:


19:46:27 Notify Caldari Navy Nova Rocket deactivates as the item it was targeted at is no longer present.
19:46:26 Combat 65 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:24 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:22 Combat 399 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:20 Combat 216 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:18 Combat 221 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:16 Combat 397 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits (Getting into hull now)
19:46:14 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:13 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:11 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:09 Combat 392 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:07 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:05 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:03 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:01 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:00 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:58 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:56 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:54 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:52 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:51 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits (Pounding away at armor)
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1231 - 2016-12-24 20:34:35 UTC
Clennel wrote:

19:46:07 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:05 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:03 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:01 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:46:00 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:58 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:56 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:54 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:52 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits
19:45:51 Combat 209 to Burner Inquisitor - Caldari Navy Nova Rocket - Hits (Pounding away at armor)


Based upon your test I have no idea why I was getting to 90% damage on my modules without killing them, I was doing 208 consistently to their armor.

I just spent a crap-load of ISK on extractors to move 1.5m SP from a useless datacore mining skill to my warhead (figured why not apply damage to all missiles) skill and part of rocket spec 5, I can do 235 before OH now (275 with). I'll probably be fine now, but I'll report back after my next attempt. I want to do some normal missions to get to it because I don't know if I can recover from tanking my standings yet (i.e. consistently do the burners).
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1232 - 2016-12-24 20:59:04 UTC
Please do report back. This has me truly curious why I'm completing these easily and reliably with less DPS.

In regards to standings, those aren't hard to fix. The same diminishing returns mechanic (percent * (10 - current)) that causes your standings to rise faster when your closer to 0 and more slowly as you approach 10.0 works in your favor when losing standings. They drop slower when your closer to 0 and faster when your closer to 10.0. My agent standings hover in the 0 to 3 range, maybe a little higher for a short while if I have a lucky run of missions. It's only when the they get in the 0 to -0.99 range that I start thinking about doing standard missions.
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1233 - 2016-12-24 22:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
So here's a question. I don't have Minmatar Cruiser V for the Vagabond, but I have Gallente and Caldari V and could even have an Onyx in 3 days, is there any alternative to the Talos Burners/Serpentis Base?

7 days from Minmtar Cruiser 5 :(
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1234 - 2016-12-24 23:24:48 UTC
the deimos was the original serpentis base ship, check the links in the OP

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1235 - 2016-12-24 23:34:03 UTC
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
So here's a question. I don't have Minmatar Cruiser V for the Vagabond, but I have Gallente and Caldari V and could even have an Onyx in 3 days, is there any alternative to the Talos Burners/Serpentis Base?

7 days from Minmtar Cruiser 5 :(


the onyx is an alternative for the blood base
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1236 - 2016-12-25 00:32:22 UTC
Vexor Navy Issue works quite well for the Talos burners also.
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1237 - 2016-12-25 03:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Well, with 374 OH I'm doing much better, but I haven't received another Enyo team so I don't know how I'll fair there yet. The Jaguar is a little nerve wracking though because the logi can be a little flaky even with 28km range.

Now, if only I could get the ISK and the balls to run the single burner missions. I depleted most of my liquid isk to retrain my science into my missile skills, so I think I'll have to be happy with having the team burners under my belt until I can get a little buffer in my wallet to cover potential losses from breaking into that. The extra skill required to run those missions coupled with the more blingy ships... it definitely gets the blood pumping like pvp, just for different reasons, heh.

Thank you all for your help.
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1238 - 2016-12-26 02:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Well, I just lost my second Garmur, this time because I dipped into point range as I got into orbit. This even after I had tried to follow advice I'd read suggesting to keep at range of about 30-40km for a little bit to let things normalize and prevent dips when orbiting. Is there any other advice you can provide to reduce/avoid these situations?
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1239 - 2016-12-26 11:31:05 UTC
I really don't understand that at all. Assuming you had set the correct orbit distances (25km for Jaguar, 20km for everything else) that's just a simple click on burner, orbit, then mwd all in quick succession. Then never touch anything related to navigating the ship until it's time to loot.

One tip that mght be helpful: I always do set my default orbit distance to the required distance rather than having to fumble around in the context menu.

In terms of navigation skills, I have the following:

Acceleration Control 4
Afterburner 5 (irrelevant here, just mentioning for completeness)
Evasive Maneuvering 5
Fuel Conservation 4 (Irrelevant)
High Speed Maneuvering 4
Navigation 5
Warpr Drive Operation 4 (Really irrelevant)
MJD Operation 4 (Also really irrelevant)

Those skills have been pretty much untouched since before I started doing burners.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1240 - 2016-12-26 11:32:05 UTC
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
Well, I just lost my second Garmur, this time because I dipped into point range as I got into orbit. This even after I had tried to follow advice I'd read suggesting to keep at range of about 30-40km for a little bit to let things normalize and prevent dips when orbiting. Is there any other advice you can provide to reduce/avoid these situations?


never had that. sure you orbited the burner and not the logi?