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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

First post
Author
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1241 - 2016-12-26 11:48:35 UTC
Ploing wrote:


never had that. sure you orbited the burner and not the logi?


I didn't mention that because I thought I was he only one careless enough to do that (was multitasking while doing RL work and just misclicked on a logi instead of the burner). Was my only team burner loss (and honestly, the only close call I ever had).
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1242 - 2016-12-26 12:27:33 UTC
once i had a mouse which interprets a single click as a doubleclick. since that i avoid to turn the camera to much. and always checking that i still orbit Big smile
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1243 - 2016-12-26 17:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Thanks for the responses, folks.

I admittedly never see Anize do anything other than orbit in her videos, but I read a blog from someone else and they mentioned that they frequently keep-at-range first to prevent dips, and I myself had fallen within 15km range before when orbiting so it worried me a bit. Perhaps it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Still, I do think Clennel might be on to something about the skills related to microwarpdrives. Perhaps between my skills and the difference in the meta of your and her microwarpdrive on your fits I'm increasing my risk. I'll take a look at it all and let you know how things go.

Thanks again!

EDIT: There's no velocity difference between the microwarpdrives, but perhaps I need to raise my skill of 3 to a 4 or 5, I'll keep investigating.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1244 - 2016-12-26 19:16:36 UTC
I just kite in a straight line and use ECM, sure sometimes it takes a little longer but one less thing to mess up.

The first one is my old fit, the second one is one I want to try soon™ as the compact stuff wasn't around last time I played. The missile range may feel a little low, but since the npcs are flying in a straight line at you, you effectively end up getting a few extra KM range. The signal amp is nice as it gives just enough targeting range to start ECM as soon as you land, and the damage is just high enough to punch through a logi if you get super unlucky with ECM. The second fit has just a bit more damage and hopefully should punch through the logi even quicker to hopefully give even more consistent complete times.

I will vouch the first fit for caldari and gallente team burners. It works for the minmatar but I'm not sure if it can hit the logi at 25km+ so I can't guarantee you won't get hit by a wrecking shot, I use an ecm harpy for that one. Also can't remember about the amarr team, I always just used the unified daredevil for that one. The pure EM damage is super easy to tank, and the daredevil dps is just so overwhelming it goes super fast. Of course with the ECM it will eventually work, but I remember the amarr logi having the highest logi tank so not sure how well it breaks through that.


[Garmur, Polar Ecm Kite]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
'Basic' Signal Amplifier

1MN Afterburner II
Peripheral Compact Target Painter
CZ-4 Compact Gravimetric ECM
CZ-4 Compact Gravimetric ECM

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Mjolnir Rage Rocket x953
Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x681
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x507
Nova Rage Rocket x839
Inferno Rage Rocket x627
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x524

[Garmur, Polar Ecm 3 bcu]
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Peripheral Compact Target Painter
CZ-4 Compact Gravimetric ECM
CZ-4 Compact Gravimetric ECM

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Mjolnir Rage Rocket x953
Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x681
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x507
Nova Rage Rocket x839
Inferno Rage Rocket x627
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x524

and because I mentioned it my ECM harpy fit.
[Harpy, 150mm ECM]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Halting Compact Ladar ECM
Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Halting Compact Ladar ECM

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1245 - 2016-12-27 23:18:04 UTC
I've never had good luck using ECM in missions. Probably because my skills are somewhat lackluster in that area. Would you mind sharing some recommended skill levels?

Thanks in advance!
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1246 - 2016-12-28 00:59:03 UTC
according to http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=25&return_to= the team burner logi have sensor strengths between 17-21. EFT says a heated meta ECM has a 4.95 jam strength so you are looking at roughly a 1/4 chance to jam. Dropping the various skills to 4 doesn't seem to lower the chances that much. Also I find that if you have a bad streak of not being able to jam the first logi swapping to the other logi works most of the time, but RNG is R.

Signal Dispersion is the skill that increases ECM strength so it is the main skill to work on, most of the other ewar skills won't make a big difference as ECM has adequate range. But Long distance jamming doesn't hurt.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1247 - 2016-12-28 08:10:12 UTC
I appreciate the info! Thanks! Unfortunately, most of my skills are already level 4. And if I'm understanding correctly, even if i trained up to level 5 (Signal Dispersion alone being a rank 5 skill), I could only hope for about a 25% chance of jamming? That doesn't sound like the kind of return on training time investment I'd be really interested in.

Again, thanks for the reply! All info is good!
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1248 - 2016-12-30 00:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
Just reporting back some recent experience.

I would advise against using the T2 flare rig on the Garmur unless you can reach 28k with a missile range implant. It's fine for all of the burners except for the Jaguar, as when orbiting at 25km the Bursts are almost always 27-28k off.

Also, the guidance computers become damaged extremely quickly so they can't be relied upon overheated for the range difference.

EDIT: If you decide to go the implant route, you'll get more bang for your buck with the MB-703 Missile Bombardment implant. It's about 1 million cheaper and gives a tiny bit more total range than the MP-703 Missile Projection at 27.739 km compared to 27.734 km.

However, I'd still suggest the T1 Flare and just carrying a precision scrip to swap out for one of your computers. You'll lose 13.5% explosion velocity but pick up a 6.5% explosion radius bonus and will still have 24 km range.

EDIT2: I take it back, it's still a net gain with the precision script because I forgot you still have a 15% bonus from the T1 Flare and the 100% script bonus over the default targeting computer for explosion velocity and radius bonuses.
Kubera Vaisravana
Pirates That Don't Do Anything
#1249 - 2016-12-31 00:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kubera Vaisravana
So, the Cuor seems tough to break the tank on given the various disadvantages you have when fighting it. With the cheaper version of the wolf, I can attain 266.4 dps unheated (303.9 OH).

Anize is using the more expensive fit in her video, which does 12 more dps (with my skills) and has a better web (5% difference) and it still seems like there is very little room for mistakes.

I'm uncomfortable throwing an additional 160 million at a ship when I'm still taking my lumps. Do you think I have enough damage to take it out if I don't screw up too badly?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1250 - 2016-12-31 02:11:46 UTC
This is the fit I use, ~100m all together and is the recommended fit from this thread. I use a corpii or centii a-type rep which are a bit over 40m, It looks like you could use the coreli a-type which is a bit less at 22mil, but I like having the higher reps of the copii/centii and the isk difference isn't material to me. I don't think the 5 cap difference in activation cost will really make a difference, and the 20 hp/rep probably doesn't make a big difference either.

I guess I don't really understand the recommended fit in Anize's guide, it costs more and does less damage. The gyro to tracking enhancer may be a good swap, but I don't get the 2 faction gyros (cost bloat), or swapping the super cheap a-type plating to a t2 Energized membrane which seems like a waste of fitting room.

I just looked at the video and it looks to be more like my fitting. only uses 2 faction gryos and fits a t2 web with t2 rocket launcher. I think I'd rather keep my meta web/rocket and t2 gyros to help keep the cost down.

I get ~320 dps with this fit with a 5% turret damage implant (the SS-905). It consistently takes me 5 cap boosters to complete the mission. I'm guessing with lower damage it will take some extra cap boosters but will be doable. With an all level 4 pilot it looks to do 268 damage, which goes up to 281 with the 5% implant and 321 with implant and heat on the guns. I believe it can be broken with max skills and no heat so with your fit I'd assume the same.

worst thing you can do in this mission is burn your guns out. I've lost several wolfs to this, the thing is mostly a bullet sponge so sometimes I get bored in the middle of the fight and stop paying attention. I mostly solved this by waiting till the burner is in low armor before activating heat, this way the burner dies before I burn my guns out.

[Wolf, Blood burner]
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Centii A-Type Thermal Plating
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Anti-Thermal Pump II

Republic Fleet Fusion S x2000
Navy Cap Booster 400 x13
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x750

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1251 - 2016-12-31 02:16:21 UTC
[Vengeance, Burner (Blood) CapBattery]

Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized EM Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
Ballistic Control System II

Stasis Webifier II
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
[Empty High slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Tank: 190.9 HP/s vs Conflagration in a standstill shooting match (Cruor does 180 HP/s?).
DPS: 151 DPS, 15 radius/225 velocity. 60% web should get him to ~320 m/s for at least 90% damage application.
Cap: +21.1 GJ/s / -10.1 GJ/s = +10.2 GJ/s surplus. 18 GJ/s neut should be reduced to 10.06 GJ/s by the batteries.

I've never run a Burner mission. I've been reading a LOT about it, but I've never run one. I really want to see how many of the agents I can do with a Retribution or Vengeance. So this should be able to tank it easily, and not get capped out... but will the 135ish DPS that applies be enough to break it's tank?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1252 - 2016-12-31 03:24:04 UTC
sounds like you are underestimating the content, I know I did when they first came out. Think of them as player ships that are officer fit, overheated, have multiple pirate implant sets, and full command bursts.

also AFAIK cap batteries don't do anything vs npc neuts/nos, but I have little info to support/deny that.

At least the retribution should be able to do all the team burners. I have a kiting beam fit that does plenty of dps to punch through the logi reps. I typically fly with an ECM in the mids and an afterburner, this means it is too slow for the minmatar version where I use a mwd harpy.

[Retribution, kill it burner mwd kite]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma S
[empty high slot]
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator II

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1253 - 2016-12-31 04:14:13 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sounds like you are underestimating the content, I know I did when they first came out. Think of them as player ships that are officer fit, overheated, have multiple pirate implant sets, and full command bursts.

also AFAIK cap batteries don't do anything vs npc neuts/nos, but I have little info to support/deny that.


I don't feel like I'm underestimating the damage potential at all. I'm using the database figures which line up with the spreadsheet of observed DPS from this thread. 90 EM/90 TH per second. Receiving that damage I can take 190 HP/s with this tank, assuming no damage at all is lost to tracking--worst case scenario. Cap Batteries reduce the effectiveness of Nos/Neuts used against you--I have a pair of Thukker Cap Batteries on my Paladin (-28% nos/neut effectiveness, each) and it's awesome in Blood Raiders Blockade to take the pressure off getting the elite cruisers down before getting capped out. I assumed they would work the same for Burners.

If I just want to test out the tank and cap stability, will 1 warp core stab allow me to leave, or do I need 2 fit? I need to know if my small amount of DPS can break the tank--my damage application will be almost 100% effective, but I'm not sure if it's enough.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1254 - 2016-12-31 04:59:15 UTC
I would not compare a paladin in the blockade to anything burner related. FWIW when I run The Blockade any npc that can nos is dead before it gets in nos range. Also the paladin has a huge base cap, adding two cap batteries and it should have insane cap. I'm not sure that the reduction is working or that you just have so much cap it seems like there is a reduction.

I'd probably go with your fit and drop the web for a cap injector, then bring a mobile depot and warp stabs to refit into. If the cap batteries don't work the cap injector will at least let you keep your armor up will the mobile depot onlines and you can refit stabs to warp out. Looks like you should need 2 to be able to warp out. I hope it will work but I have doubts.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1255 - 2016-12-31 10:58:52 UTC
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:


I'm uncomfortable throwing an additional 160 million at a ship when I'm still taking my lumps. Do you think I have enough damage to take it out if I don't screw up too badly?


dmg is enough, because i use a passive shield jag fit with unheated 225 dps.


Takh Meir'noen wrote:
[Vengeance, Burner (Blood) CapBattery]

Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized EM Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
Ballistic Control System II

Stasis Webifier II
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
[Empty High slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II



u have to use nova rockets. with 151 dps u are really on the low side. if u can break the tank it can be maybe 8-10 minutes to finish.
Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1256 - 2016-12-31 15:35:32 UTC
Thanks, yeah I just forgot to change the rockets over to Nova in Pyfa. Next time I get Cruor I guess we'll find out!
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1257 - 2016-12-31 16:13:39 UTC
Takh Meir'noen wrote:
Thanks, yeah I just forgot to change the rockets over to Nova in Pyfa. Next time I get Cruor I guess we'll find out!


please report Blink
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1258 - 2016-12-31 17:03:59 UTC
Kubera Vaisravana wrote:
Just reporting back some recent experience.

I would advise against using the T2 flare rig on the Garmur unless you can reach 28k with a missile range implant. It's fine for all of the burners except for the Jaguar, as when orbiting at 25km the Bursts are almost always 27-28k off.



The Mjolnir Javelin rockets address the range problems against the Jaguar's logi.
Clennel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1259 - 2016-12-31 17:23:26 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


worst thing you can do in this mission is burn your guns out. I've lost several wolfs to this, the thing is mostly a bullet sponge so sometimes I get bored in the middle of the fight and stop paying attention. I mostly solved this by waiting till the burner is in low armor before activating heat, this way the burner dies before I burn my guns out.



Nah! The worst thing you can do is what I did yesterday: Forget to resupply the carghold with ammo before engaging. Then watch while a Cruor with only 3% hull left slowly kills you Ugh - until your cap boosters run out, at which time he quickly kills you P
drozh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1260 - 2017-01-03 14:28:38 UTC
Many thanks for this guide and fits.

I didnt read every post, so soory if it was asked and answered before.

I didn't try any burner before, so I want to test it now. But, I am not able to habe a special fit for every mission, so here the question: Is it possible to do all the Berner with one or two different ships? I'm Caldary, so I would prefer missiles and shields.

Thanks