Wormholes

No.. No, no no please no...

Ok, so how to make this reasonable feedback:

As one of the few groups thats actually lived in a C4 for over a year now, and after living in the entire range of WH space, this is not what C4's need.. Now i get why you want to spice up C4's, and i fully support that, but lets first take a step back and ask what makes a wormhole good or bad, class/effect aside.. Its your statics. Everyone talking about their home system mention what statics they got, cause its a huge deal when choosing where you settle down.

I actually belive that the current statics of C4's do make them unique, since it gives you the "end game" wormholes those of us in small groups that dont want the capital evictions larger groups throws around willy nilly. C4 is the perfect place for a 3-8 man group that just want to have their own part of space, but still run the risk of incoming connections, balanced with the logistical hurdles of running a system with no direct kspace. Its also easy to roam looking for content in connecting holes and without the silly income levels of 5-6 that makes them a obvious choice if its the ISK your looking for.

Now i fully support the notion that a mixup with C4's would be a great thing, but please dont make it more statics.. I personally spoke with both Fozzy and Bettik at fanfest two years in a row now pushing the idea of more wanderings inside wspace and echoed this as a unique thing that could be given to lowsec (guess what, already added!), along with many others doing the same thing at the roundtables. But at least in my opinion, its a huge step from making them wandering and being statics. Sure, make it so C4's have a much larger chance of incoming and outgoing wandering connections, just dont make them permanent (and also keep C4's uniqueness that they cant have wandering into kspace please). Its the uncertainty of WH space we all love, not the things that are fixed rules. If it was my choice, no wormhole would have statics even, just a minimum of 1 wandering wh at all time, but you just never knew where it would exit.

As i said, i've lived in a C4 for over a year now, with the same small group of friends that have no interrest in taking part of the diplomacy/drama of Overlords anymore, and we enjoy being this size. As a result, we can easily be labeled as "wh carebears" and pushover targets or whatever, reason alone for having to post on a alt and not get RF within the next 24h.

But we love our C4 and its connectability. If you have a good static and enough numbers, the C4 is perfect to roam down the pipe and looking for interaction with other WH groups. If we only have a few online, we can run sites with pretty much the same risk of invaders as the lower classes can (C2 ofc have somewhat higher,tradeoff being always a kspace), and the scaling of income from 1-4 is not completely out of line, making it a reasonable choice where to settle in that range based on risk/reward/human workload. Again, in its current state, C4 is the endgame of small WH groups that want to remain independant. If anything, the curve should maybe be smoothed out a bit between the lower classes and the huge jump from 4 to 5, but thats another topic. Yes, they also put a lot more on the line to get that income, not saying its unbalanced, just make more of a choice if you want a C4 or C5 if you have the numbers for it.. Nobody that have numbers to live in a C5 choose a C4 instead, but that has nothing to do with how many statics it have or how well connected it could be, and thats more where the "problems" of lower statistics in C4s come from, not how connected it is. Nobody complains about the number of connections a C5 have, the issue with entire range of 4-6 and connections is fine in its current state as long as you just implement the increased rate of wanderings as also suggested for Hyperion. Its just making it more likely for a larger group in C5-C6 to harass the small groups of C4, one of the good tradeoffs you really had from living in that range. Now i want more interaction between WH space, just not push C4 deeper down into the dirt.

A 2nd static in C4 will only make the transits from C1-3 and up into C5-6 easier, its probably instead going to have a negative effect on how many actually live in C4. Its a change that makes life easier for C5+ groups being able to reach larget parts of w-space quickly (something i think is still a good thing), but it will also increase the risk of living in a C4 so much higher that its no longer worth it compared to living in a C3 or lower. Making 70mill a site vs 90mill when tradeoff is double the chance of someone roaming into you? Dont think so.. I know for a fact that my group will move out of our current C4 if this change takes effect, and instead go back to a C3 with lowsec/nullsec static and have our pvp-content there instead of actually being more interacted with the rest of the WH community, something i would again think was a sad choice to make.

If you need more C4 residents to confirm/deny this being a good thing, why not ask former pilots of SUSU (many now having moved on to NoHo, Hard Knocks etc) and why they left C4 for higher classes. Im sure none of them will say its because it only had 1 static.

In conclusion, i would love to have some changes to make C4's no longer the ginger stepchild of WH space, and again if that could be a huge increase in wandering connections emerge in them into other parts of wspace, that would be great!! But making them statics would give such a huge impact that i fear its result would be that you still get your metrix with higher number of jumps and so on, and the actual number of people choosing to settle down in them would be dropping.

So i stand by my "no, no no", and as a last plea to Corbexx: if you allow this to happen on your watch, i will regret the day i gave you my vote to represent the really small groups in lower class WH space..

I’m not sure what you’re making in c3's but I know how much you can make solo in a c4...... The only thing I could see being done is lower the stupid spawn ranges and make more than 2 sites viable to run to make isk (do npcs really need to spawn 200+km from warp in?).

C4 income doesn’t require a buff other than making it more scalable for small-mid size groups it shouldn’t discourage you to run sites with your corp mates over solo. The duel static does push towards making c4 site running with a couple scout alts less risk free and encourage you to do it as a group but could use some more incentive.

First of all - Thank you CCP Fozzie for publishing that Devblog.

Now to the point :)

Well - I think this will be nice change... from perspective someone who doesn't live in c4 :) - For me finding c4 chain (usually this looks like this: c5(c6 or c2)->c4->c4->c4->.....->c4->something) now is kinda boring. Now after change it will be more interesting and more sense checking c4 for connections.

On the other hand - I never lived there (I was in C6 C5 or C2). Right now I'm on my vacations in C2 with two statics and it gives you nice freedom - since you can roll both holes and send 2 teams of scouts in two different directions.

One really big issue although here - PLS - C4 should stay without connection to K-space. It's something that makes them unique and taking that back from them would be bad decision.

C3s payout an average of 70mill per site while C4s payout an average 90mill, but are much harder, and will now become much less safe. This patch will push more people out of C4s then it will attract them in.

The idea of "adding a new entry point will make them more used" is very short sighted especially due to the fact that their biggest problem was inefficient isk making in the first place. That's why I stated if they want their reward needs to be increased, not only to fix their previous weakness, but to now make them even worth living in with the increased risk.

I dont want to sound rude or personal. But you simply dont know what you're talking about.

iskwise, the numbers are out there. undisbutable numbers.

The thing about having caps, in c4's. Not so sure, i mean, there isn't really a benefit for having one in a c4, other than easy farming is there?

sadly.. no

C4's need to be more profitable. They aren't worth the time and risk for their current payout.

Where is this average of 60M per site in C3 coming from?? It's 60M per if you are really lucky from combat sites, more from data/relic sites but those things are so rare it's not 'average'. C3 combat anoms drop from 32-27M in blues and you are sure as **** not getting 10 melted nanos/site in average.. math ppl..

I would prefer to see a large number of dynamics added to C4's in lieu of a second static. The second static is predictable and thus less interesting than the randomness of wondering how many dynamics might exist and where they might lead to.

Also dynamics are more easily adjusted in quantity, either up or down after the change is experienced. I don't live in a c4, but if you suddenly changed my homes statics I would be bitterly unhappy. The static change will likely cause chaos for people that suddenly find they have a static which leads to a corner of space they do not want to visit and now suddenly feel like they have to move. Dynamics however are more subtle and to a lesser degree change the deal that they signed up for when the hole was selected as home.

double post