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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Second Static for C4s

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Author
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#361 - 2014-09-01 10:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Terrorfrodo wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I have completely given up using one to scan and scout until that is resolved.

While it is annoying that the k162 doesn't give a clue, it is extremely easy to align to somewhere before decloaking, then decloak and try to jump, and if jumping doesn't work, just warp off instantly.

Nicely demonstrates the willingness and/or capability to adapt of some people...


Or I can use a covert ops, why try to force a hammer to put in a screw?

The point is that this should have been thought about before.

They actually should be quite embarrassed, the first person who tried noticed it, it is not like it is an obscure feature?

You know, exploring involves going through wormholes and stuff?

Funny how they seem to miss these things.

So much for the "devs live in wormhole space"

It is like the example of toilets and a seat.

You only need to use a toilet once, ever, to realise they are bloody uncomfortable without one....
So clearly if someone designs a smaller one for smaller people, he is not going to forget!

So how are we expected to believe that CCP devs have any experience of wormhole space whatsoever? When they have no comprehension of the most basic features.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#362 - 2014-09-01 11:10:09 UTC
It might well be intentional, and although I don't particularly like it out of self-interest, I can easily make a solid argument for it:

Scouting in a T3 is an immense advantage because your scout ship is already capable to provide strong combat-tackle. Up until now, there was basically no downside to it because it was extremely safe to use a T3 and only a combination of very bad luck (spawning very close to wh) plus negligence/incompetence could make you lose your ship. (Not counting instances where you successfully tackle but it turns out to be a trap, of course.)

Now, if you want to continue to scout in such a strong ship, you run a small risk of getting tackled at a wormhole without a way out. However, you can still mitigate that risk by being extra diligent and always aligning before decloaking.

As in many other scenarios in EVE, you can survive where others die by being more diligent and competent than those other, incompetent/lazy players.

Adding to that, the luck factor of spawning too close to cloak was even removed, so scouting is even less based on luck and more on competence/diligence than before. Of course some holes are now simply off-limits to T3's, but since those holes are a new feature and added to what we had before, we don't actually lose anything.

.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#363 - 2014-09-01 11:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Terrorfrodo wrote:
It might well be intentional, and although I don't particularly like it out of self-interest, I can easily make a solid argument for it:

Scouting in a T3 is an immense advantage because your scout ship is already capable to provide strong combat-tackle. Up until now, there was basically no downside to it because it was extremely safe to use a T3 and only a combination of very bad luck (spawning very close to wh) plus negligence/incompetence could make you lose your ship. (Not counting instances where you successfully tackle but it turns out to be a trap, of course.)

Now, if you want to continue to scout in such a strong ship, you run a small risk of getting tackled at a wormhole without a way out. However, you can still mitigate that risk by being extra diligent and always aligning before decloaking.

As in many other scenarios in EVE, you can survive where others die by being more diligent and competent than those other, incompetent/lazy players.

Adding to that, the luck factor of spawning too close to cloak was even removed, so scouting is even less based on luck and more on competence/diligence than before. Of course some holes are now simply off-limits to T3's, but since those holes are a new feature and added to what we had before, we don't actually lose anything.


Um, nicely written theory, but one of the implementation devs, did say that it came up during testing and was unintentional, and something they were looking at how to resolve but it was "complicated"

I am sure they are quite capable of adding one word in the description

Unless that change, in placing a description in the info, is going to be the core of the next oceanus release, as they seem to have put very little thought into Hyperion, so why should that be any different?
There's only database changes here in Hyperion, there is absolutely nothing new for wormholes, the minimum effort and thought imaginable was spent on it, is one simple word in the description to much to ask for?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#364 - 2014-09-01 11:17:39 UTC
That is nice to hear. I hope I didn't provide the official excuse for not fixing it, then :D

.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#365 - 2014-09-01 11:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Terrorfrodo wrote:
That is nice to hear. I hope I didn't provide the official excuse for not fixing it, then :D

Big smile

You put more thought and effort into it, that's for sure.

Edit :- that's too hard, please excuse the frustration talking.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

DarkWar1
Disingenuous Assistance Cooperative
#366 - 2014-09-03 04:45:51 UTC
I live in a C4/C1...It now has a second C5 static... I love the idea of blasting off into C5 territory w/ a coupla DPS ships w/ a coupla logi ships and making boocoo isk. Don't know yet what I need or such but do like the endeavor even though we didn't have it before!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#367 - 2014-09-03 18:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
DarkWar1 wrote:
I live in a C4/C1...It now has a second C5 static... I love the idea of blasting off into C5 territory w/ a coupla DPS ships w/ a coupla logi ships and making boocoo isk. Don't know yet what I need or such but do like the endeavor even though we didn't have it before!



Make good warp ins with a zephyr, be very on your toes, and practice with your sleeper killing fleet in a c4 first, until you get it down perfectly.

Be very very aware, these sleepers hit like nothing you have ever seen before, ensure your logi's have everyone locked, as you will only have a moment when they switch. Learn the triggers, until you talk about them in your sleep.

Even the Gas sites, can obliterate the unprepared.

Ignore anyone who says it is easy isk, they have learned from someone who had more opinion than knowledge.

Your op awareness and security needs to be near perfect, this is not a job for an alt, a seconds inattention, and you will lose the lot.

Good hunting, content is always a good thing, and a good challenge is always better than an easy gank.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#368 - 2014-10-04 07:43:03 UTC
How did the change affect the activity curve so far?
Did it even get a counter productive effect?

Can you get numbers on that, corbex?
Aiyshimin
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#369 - 2014-10-04 08:54:10 UTC
umnikar wrote:
How did the change affect the activity curve so far?
Did it even get a counter productive effect?

Can you get numbers on that, corbex?


It made C4 space the best wh space, perfect for small groups who enjoy the ample connectivity and pvp opportunities it brings.
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2014-10-04 10:10:30 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
umnikar wrote:
How did the change affect the activity curve so far?
Did it even get a counter productive effect?

Can you get numbers on that, corbex?


It made C4 space the best wh space, perfect for small groups who enjoy the ample connectivity and pvp opportunities it brings.


my experience has been a bit underwhelming - there's little change in overall activity levels, certainly makes managing risk more interesting but since at least half the space is empty anyway... incidentally the ppl who complained about c4 chains going on forever, well it is now near impossible to not have a c4 in your chain. if that is what ccp wanted to achieve then mission accomplished i guess.

to be fair, i think september was weird as ppl tried to figure out how to adapt so maybe next couple of months will paint a clearer picture. some graphs and stats would be useful, but i'd imagine it is probably still too early.
Aiyshimin
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#371 - 2014-10-04 10:42:40 UTC
Our experiences are positively biased as we moved from C5>C5 for Hyperion. C5 space was absolutely dead compared to dual static space, and we're very happy with the activity level so far.

Obviously there's a lot of room for more people, but this constant whining and bitching about irrelevant little things that's prevalent on these forums now certainly doesn't help with that.

Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2014-10-04 11:35:09 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Our experiences are positively biased as we moved from C5>C5 for Hyperion. C5 space was absolutely dead compared to dual static space, and we're very happy with the activity level so far.

Obviously there's a lot of room for more people, but this constant whining and bitching about irrelevant little things that's prevalent on these forums now certainly doesn't help with that.



we gained a c5 static, and yea lots of empty holes or the occasional 15 man farmer corp... having said we'll prob get **** stomped over the weekend by the fabled 30 man t3 gang Pirate / no f's given.

whining and bitching aside, i still have this gut feeling that ccp will leave things as they are, and basically the whole feedback thing is a giant troll. I cant help but feel hyperion was a missed opportunity to actually start fixing things (ahem, POS) and inject some actual new content - especially since wspace has had virtually no changes since it was introduced (how many years ago?). and no i don't believe frig holes count, i'm talking about actual new content rather than re-using some code and changing a few variables.

CCP's change in cycles for game updates is great if they actually fix stuff that is broken (ahem, POS), but not if its just a PR exercise for "shaking things up" - that saying grates me, it implies game development is the same as making a milkshake:

"can i put the rifter and the wormhole in the blender... oooh look a frig only wormhole... love it ... more psssshhhh pls."
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#373 - 2014-10-05 00:50:38 UTC
8 weeks in to this change, I like it. I can easily scan twice the inactive, boring, empty space as I used to be able to do from a C4 before the patch!
Tommallionus
Grupa Operacyjna ZLY CHUJI
#374 - 2014-10-05 15:25:54 UTC
Hi!

My short opinion is it does matter to anyone.

Small frig-size are not needed and completly usless.

Adding extra static to c4 WH was enough to make this class more intresting.

Example: I've just spend 4+ hours scaning our chain. Starting from our 2 with c4 static have around 100 bookmarks for all conections. chaecked around 30+ WH in chain. FOUND around 10 Frig size WH which I couldn't check with my scanning tengu.

Bassicaly at this moment I'm spending more time scanning than doing anything else in game. FOr me those new WH type are just useless, time consuming signatures which nobody use anyway.

Please remove them, please make it simplier for people to dwell in WHs.

And the last thing... after 4 hours of scanning, 30+ wh checked I've finally killed epithal ;] ...and meet one helios... wtf?

Don't change the game rules every 2 months, decrease plex prices, encuorage people to start playing again,... otherwise it's gonna die ;]

Thank You!