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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Second Static for C4s

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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#181 - 2014-08-10 08:55:29 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We will not be publishing the list of new statics, but players will be able to investigate them on SISI once it is updated with this change. The second statics are not configured as predictably as they are in C2s, but there are still some patterns that can be discovered.



Can we get a date on this happening and will the move request get us some love or will we have to do it the hard way?


Dibs on J121116
Pro TIps
Doomheim
#182 - 2014-08-10 09:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Pro TIps
Having read all the posts on this thread, I think the entire volume of player feedback can be grouped into three areas:


  • I don't live in a C4 but this sounds great
  • I used to live in a C4 but logistics was hard, so I moved out
  • I live in a C4 now and this sounds harmful


What CCP is not doing is asking successful C4 residents why that type of system is suited to them.

Let me give my opinion from the perspective of a C4 resident who lives there because it is isolated: It is a good stepping-up point for a corporation who don't want to remain in highsec forever, but who also aren't prepared to rent in null or try to carve out some lowsec yet.

My perception of CCP's goals for these wormhole changes seems to be that they do indeed want to promote W-space PVP, make wormholes much less safe, and create an artificial reason for PVP gangs to switch from the T3-dominant meta to frigates so they can travel through new, special wandering WHs.

W-space PVP is dominated by T3 cruiser gangs and Ishtars because they are significantly over-powered in PVP. If you see anything else with them, it might be an interdictor or a command ship (links) in well-organized gangs; but their combat power never comes from anything except cruisers. That's not because wormholes are broken, it's because T3 cruisers are broken. Creating special new wormholes isn't addressing the root problem.

Players crying about the logistics difficulties of certain types of C4 wormhole systems (such as C4-C4) shouldn't live in those. Find something more suitable to you -- there is plenty of empty W-space out there. Also, C4-C4 might not be the best idea and many of them are empty; but that's only a fraction of all C4 systems.

Finally, all the I live in a C4 now and this sounds harmful folks are right -- it will be harmful to them. It will increase their traffic, and they are almost certainly in a C4 specifically to avoid that.

The ability to avoid spawning the other side of your K162 even if you warped to the grid of your static is not a benefit to those isolationists. Why? It works both ways. You will have less warning of someone entering your system. That, plus the addition of new wanderers that you effectively cannot close, and existing C4s gaining a new static (what if it's a kind I hate?) will create significant challenges for people or corps who live in a C4 specifically because they want an isolated base.


In short, the bulk of these changes will harm C4 residents and probably make them less popular than they are now, not more popular. CCP should be able to see this and adjust their plan
Kara the Navigator
Kerviel Banking Services
#183 - 2014-08-10 10:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara the Navigator
Pro TIps wrote:
Having read all the posts on this thread, I think the entire volume of player feedback can be grouped into three areas:


  • I don't live in a C4 but this sounds great
  • I used to live in a C4 but logistics was hard, so I moved out
  • I live in a C4 now and this sounds harmful


What CCP is not doing is asking successful C4 residents why that type of system is suited to them.

Let me give my opinion from the perspective of a C4 resident who lives there because it is isolated: It is a good stepping-up point for a corporation who don't want to remain in highsec forever, but who also aren't prepared to rent in null or try to carve out some lowsec yet.

My perception of CCP's goals for these wormhole changes seems to be that they do indeed want to promote W-space PVP, make wormholes much less safe, and create an artificial reason for PVP gangs to switch from the T3-dominant meta to frigates so they can travel through new, special wandering WHs.

W-space PVP is dominated by T3 cruiser gangs and Ishtars because they are significantly over-powered in PVP. If you see anything else with them, it might be an interdictor or a command ship (links) in well-organized gangs; but their combat power never comes from anything except cruisers. That's not because wormholes are broken, it's because T3 cruisers are broken. Creating special new wormholes isn't addressing the root problem.

Players crying about the logistics difficulties of certain types of C4 wormhole systems (such as C4-C4) shouldn't live in those. Find something more suitable to you -- there is plenty of empty W-space out there. Also, C4-C4 might not be the best idea and many of them are empty; but that's only a fraction of all C4 systems.

Finally, all the I live in a C4 now and this sounds harmful folks are right -- it will be harmful to them. It will increase their traffic, and they are almost certainly in a C4 specifically to avoid that.

The ability to avoid spawning the other side of your K162 even if you warped to the grid of your static is not a benefit to those isolationists. Why? It works both ways. You will have less warning of someone entering your system. That, plus the addition of new wanderers that you effectively cannot close, and existing C4s gaining a new static (what if it's a kind I hate?) will create significant challenges for people or corps who live in a C4 specifically because they want an isolated base.


In short, the bulk of these changes will harm C4 residents and probably make them less popular than they are now, not more popular. CCP should be able to see this and adjust their plan


^ Just this CCP Fozzie.

C4 corps won't fight; they'll move. Creating a wonderfull gap in C4 space and lack of targets in these areas.

C4 payouts have to be hugely increased at this point to convince some corps to stay there, because they'll have to replace their T3's a lot more than before.
Kuya Third
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-08-10 13:18:11 UTC
Pro TIps wrote:


Players crying about the logistics difficulties of certain types of C4 wormhole systems (such as C4-C4) shouldn't live in those. Find something more suitable to you -- there is plenty of empty W-space out there. Also, C4-C4 might not be the best idea and many of them are empty; but that's only a fraction of all C4 systems.


I believe only players who are planing/not actually living in C4 space crying about logistics because they fear it will be so.
Our C4/C4 has at least one c2 or c3 incoming every day. If not the next C4 has...
Almost all C4 we come accross has residents these days. Maybe there's one static per week to farm.

Kara the Navigator wrote:

C4 corps won't fight; they'll move. Creating a wonderfull gap in C4 space and lack of targets in these areas.


The lack of targets ... uh? Targets tend not to fight, yeah...
Some C4 corps do fight indeed. There's is a difference about PvP and blobs landing on targets IMHO - most of our engagements do not show up on any kb cause one party is able to escape.
I don't know if you can imagine that kind gameplay.

Kara the Navigator wrote:

C4 payouts have to be hugely increased at this point to convince some corps to stay there, because they'll have to replace their T3's a lot more than before.


Why is that again? Because the new connectivity will add C4 as an alternate farming ground for you i assume - after small groups left and not doing em anymore.

The income goes steady up with WH classes atm. Only exception being escalations where it suddenly explodes while being on the upper(safe) end. I would just nerf that. It would force large groups to go out of their holes to farm and suddenly creating content themself instead of just takin it.
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Querschlaeger
#185 - 2014-08-10 15:04:09 UTC
As a longtime low-class resident and CEO of one of the few groups in low-class, that spend the most of our time doing PvP I would like to talk about the upcoming changes to C4s and the other low-class systems.

The changes themselves are OK. BUT as many have already said it here: Where is the financial compensation for the increased risk?
It has already been mentioned here, that what you can currently earn in low-class by PvE - even compared to the High Sec - is a joke and I agree. Who will stay if it gets harsher? Only to call a little part of worthless space your own? Well thank you very much but no. If our targets are no longer able to compensate their losses, I can only advise them to go.

If the C4s will be the new battlegrounds in W-Space then it should be. But give the low-class residents the option to earn enough ISK to stay or to attract others to come in. Or how should we attract other players to join and bring ships that are worth a bil+ for pvp?

As I already said the changes make sense and are necessary, but only if they are simultaneously with the rebalance of the PvE content in the whole w-space. Otherwise 1500 dead systems will remain. The other are 1000 high class or PI WHs. PvE and PvP must always be changed together, otherwise only crap comes out.
Katerin Archer
Total.
#186 - 2014-08-10 17:26:43 UTC
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
As a longtime low-class resident and CEO of one of the few groups in low-class, that spend the most of our time doing PvP I would like to talk about the upcoming changes to C4s and the other low-class systems.

The changes themselves are OK. BUT as many have already said it here: Where is the financial compensation for the increased risk?
It has already been mentioned here, that what you can currently earn in low-class by PvE - even compared to the High Sec - is a joke and I agree. Who will stay if it gets harsher? Only to call a little part of worthless space your own? Well thank you very much but no. If our targets are no longer able to compensate their losses, I can only advise them to go.

If the C4s will be the new battlegrounds in W-Space then it should be. But give the low-class residents the option to earn enough ISK to stay or to attract others to come in. Or how should we attract other players to join and bring ships that are worth a bil+ for pvp?

As I already said the changes make sense and are necessary, but only if they are simultaneously with the rebalance of the PvE content in the whole w-space. Otherwise 1500 dead systems will remain. The other are 1000 high class or PI WHs. PvE and PvP must always be changed together, otherwise only crap comes out.


Very much this. I don't want my perfect land of milk and honeys to become a highway. I don't need "better logistics" for a C4->C4s. Mine is volatile, but, at the end of the day, it's a matter of time to get a proper way, and not really big time for a corp with 3 Orcas and 7 Scorpion alts =)
But that doesn't mean that we have 10 active people at a time and can afford fighting whoever comes in. 10 toons are just toons, if 1-2 guys control them, they have less chances to win a fight vs. 10 ppl each controlling 1 toon.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#187 - 2014-08-11 01:21:40 UTC
The incumbents rail against the changes because someone's going to hold a knife to their neck and shave their neckbeards. Everyone else (myself included) is salivating at the chance of C4-C4-C4 action. Gurl, it's going to be a bearded lady threesome. A menage a barba.

To all those Q.Q'ing with cheetos in your beards about the lack of ISK in the C4: what the crap? Aside from C5 and C6's where you can escalate each site three times before it despawns, for untold billions, every wormhole has a limit to ISK. The reason C4's have got popular (again) is that nowadays solo players, with 2-4 accounts, can control the statics, and solo in Marauders, and make decent money. I know a guy who dualboxes Paladins in his C4-C4, and rolls to a new C4 every day. he has double the income of living in a C4-C4 than he would living in a C2-Y683.

You NEVER budget your corp or alliance ISK on your home wormhole. You ALWAYS make your ISK in your static - for years it's actually been more lucrative to live in a U210 static C3 than a D845 hole; it's on par with C2 with O477 (wherein you farm C3 sites). So, to sum up, all you neckbeards complaining how you need more ISK or easier sites....grow a set and get into your static. Here's how it breaks down;

C4 with C1: Better than a N766 to C2, just a PITA to roll. Nice logistics.
C4 with C2: You live here EXCLUSIVELY to hunt. PVPers only, all neckbeards will grow poor and Q.Q. Nice logistics.
C4 with C3: Yay, decent ISK and decent logistics.
C4 with C4: Gurl, grow a Vargurna and solo the static, CA$HM0N3Y SWAGGER.
C4 with C5: Solo C5's or log out if bads are in your chain and you lack cojones or alts to monitor holes. Your choice, brah.
C4 with C6: Yeah, well, screw this hole in particular.

After the patch, just add each of those sentences together. eg; you're in a C4 with C4 and it gows a C2 static. It's like the mullet of wormholes: business out the front (C4 ISK) party out the back (wild west C2 ganking/PVP).

C4 with C1 grows a C4 static. You've got a solid, PITA connection ful of noobs suckling off the N110, and suddenly, mana from heaven, C4 ISK lands in your lap.

What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.

and on that note, WTB N766 W-R or N766 BH hole. We're growing our neck hair long and trimming our forelocks in anticipation.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Amgurr Alabel
Incorruptibles
#188 - 2014-08-11 02:04:05 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:


What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.




The problem is we picked our static when we moved in and we know how to farm it. We can easily farm our c3 and we can hold our own in pvp against most c3 corps. We did not pick a c4/c5 or c4/c6 because we cannot farm them and we cannot for the most part pvp against the groups that live in them. If we are given a second static of c5 or c6 that screws us over.
Winthorp
#189 - 2014-08-11 02:36:12 UTC
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:


What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.




The problem is we picked our static when we moved in and we know how to farm it. We can easily farm our c3 and we can hold our own in pvp against most c3 corps. We did not pick a c4/c5 or c4/c6 because we cannot farm them and we cannot for the most part pvp against the groups that live in them. If we are given a second static of c5 or c6 that screws us over.


It is what it is though, so when changes hit you will have to see what your extra static is and either like it or leave it. there will be other C4's that you will like and can take over if your current C4 isn't to your likeing.

P.S i am in the same boat.
Fish McCragg
Nomad Collective
OnlyHoles
#190 - 2014-08-11 03:02:24 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The incumbents rail against the changes because someone's going to hold a knife to their neck and shave their neckbeards. Everyone else (myself included) is salivating at the chance of C4-C4-C4 action. Gurl, it's going to be a bearded lady threesome. A menage a barba.

To all those Q.Q'ing with cheetos in your beards about the lack of ISK in the C4: what the crap? Aside from C5 and C6's where you can escalate each site three times before it despawns, for untold billions, every wormhole has a limit to ISK. The reason C4's have got popular (again) is that nowadays solo players, with 2-4 accounts, can control the statics, and solo in Marauders, and make decent money. I know a guy who dualboxes Paladins in his C4-C4, and rolls to a new C4 every day. he has double the income of living in a C4-C4 than he would living in a C2-Y683.


Not sure where you're getting your information from, but C4s have terrible income/cost compared to other classes. I'm not saying that adding another static will ruin everything, but I can tell you it won't lead to more heavily populated C4s, and by extension, won't lead to more C4 pvp.

Also. . . neckbeards? The hell are you talking about? Are you trying to say that everyone who lives in C4 space is socially awkward and/or mildly autistic? What are we, 12 years old or something? Have a little respect for your fellow players and their opinions, or go back to world of warcraft where that kind of pointless **** waggling belongs.

You have some valid points on how this mechanic will affect gameplay, but if you can't present it respectfully, then you're going to find that nobody will listen to it.
Amgurr Alabel
Incorruptibles
#191 - 2014-08-11 03:05:50 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:


What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.




The problem is we picked our static when we moved in and we know how to farm it. We can easily farm our c3 and we can hold our own in pvp against most c3 corps. We did not pick a c4/c5 or c4/c6 because we cannot farm them and we cannot for the most part pvp against the groups that live in them. If we are given a second static of c5 or c6 that screws us over.


It is what it is though, so when changes hit you will have to see what your extra static is and either like it or leave it. there will be other C4's that you will like and can take over if your current C4 isn't to your likeing.

P.S i am in the same boat.


Yeah but the fact that they aren't even giving us any warning as to what type of new static we will have is ludicrous. If you are in the same boat then you know that logistics in a c4 is not the easiest thing in the world. Now that is a trade off that was made for being in a secluded WH. What that does mean is it could take some time to actually physically move and set up in a new location. Plus the time that it takes to talk to members and make those decisions ensure everyone is able to get their things out of the hole. This is no small task. This is something we should be able to start doing now if we are going to have to move. Not waiting till patch day to start.
Winthorp
#192 - 2014-08-11 03:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:


What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.




The problem is we picked our static when we moved in and we know how to farm it. We can easily farm our c3 and we can hold our own in pvp against most c3 corps. We did not pick a c4/c5 or c4/c6 because we cannot farm them and we cannot for the most part pvp against the groups that live in them. If we are given a second static of c5 or c6 that screws us over.


It is what it is though, so when changes hit you will have to see what your extra static is and either like it or leave it. there will be other C4's that you will like and can take over if your current C4 isn't to your likeing.

P.S i am in the same boat.


Yeah but the fact that they aren't even giving us any warning as to what type of new static we will have is ludicrous. If you are in the same boat then you know that logistics in a c4 is not the easiest thing in the world. Now that is a trade off that was made for being in a secluded WH. What that does mean is it could take some time to actually physically move and set up in a new location. Plus the time that it takes to talk to members and make those decisions ensure everyone is able to get their things out of the hole. This is no small task. This is something we should be able to start doing now if we are going to have to move. Not waiting till patch day to start.



You moved assets into and grew assets into a WH, a dangerous location and you sound like you almost want them to transport your stuff out safely for you. Roll

Changes will go live on SISI before they go live in game as stated by Fozie, so jump on check them out and prepare accordingly. /Shrugs.
Amgurr Alabel
Incorruptibles
#193 - 2014-08-11 03:35:11 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:


What the FAQ is the problem with this? If you can't figure out how to farm your static, you should move out, right now, and let me move in without having to pick a C4 hole I want, and then waste a weekend expunging your flaccid corpses from it.




The problem is we picked our static when we moved in and we know how to farm it. We can easily farm our c3 and we can hold our own in pvp against most c3 corps. We did not pick a c4/c5 or c4/c6 because we cannot farm them and we cannot for the most part pvp against the groups that live in them. If we are given a second static of c5 or c6 that screws us over.


It is what it is though, so when changes hit you will have to see what your extra static is and either like it or leave it. there will be other C4's that you will like and can take over if your current C4 isn't to your likeing.

P.S i am in the same boat.


Yeah but the fact that they aren't even giving us any warning as to what type of new static we will have is ludicrous. If you are in the same boat then you know that logistics in a c4 is not the easiest thing in the world. Now that is a trade off that was made for being in a secluded WH. What that does mean is it could take some time to actually physically move and set up in a new location. Plus the time that it takes to talk to members and make those decisions ensure everyone is able to get their things out of the hole. This is no small task. This is something we should be able to start doing now if we are going to have to move. Not waiting till patch day to start.



You moved assets into and grew assets into a WH, a dangerous location and you sound like you almost want them to transport your stuff out safely for you. Roll

Changes will go live on SISI before they go live in game as stated by Fozie, so jump on check them out and prepare accordingly. /Shrugs.


Your right I said please move all of our stuff out of WH for us. Oh wait no I simply asked for time to prepare and do it ourselves if we need to. First of all no one has said when these changes will go on SISI. Even if they went up tomorrow that is only a 2 week period. Also if my character is not in WH on SISI because I have moved it out what are the chances I will just randomly scan down our WH to check it out.
Winthorp
#194 - 2014-08-11 03:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Yeah you practically did ask for that. You only have one scan alt in your WH? i sure hope not.

You seem to just be pointlessly whining TBH. Like i said they will go on SISI and you can check before they go live, if that time frame isn't enough then start moving now. So much pointless whining in this thread and none of it of any substance at all.
Amgurr Alabel
Incorruptibles
#195 - 2014-08-11 03:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Amgurr Alabel
Deleted
Winthorp
#196 - 2014-08-11 03:48:49 UTC
Amgurr Alabel wrote:


Trolls will troll can't even come on with a real character because all you are trying to do is harass other people. Probably don't even live in a WH.


You don't come around here often do you?

Your post merely backs up my other post earlier where i said you are another one that has never interacted with any of the discussions about C4's that have been had time and time again and now when changes are happening you carry on like you have had no warning at all. But because i disagree with you i am trolling you right? Sure......
Amgurr Alabel
Incorruptibles
#197 - 2014-08-11 04:00:42 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:


Trolls will troll can't even come on with a real character because all you are trying to do is harass other people. Probably don't even live in a WH.


You don't come around here often do you?

Your post merely backs up my other post earlier where i said you are another one that has never interacted with any of the discussions about C4's that have been had time and time again and now when changes are happening you carry on like you have had no warning at all. But because i disagree with you i am trolling you right? Sure......


No because you take what I am saying and try to say that I am saying things that I am not.

Because I have not been included in the conversation since the beginning my thoughts on the topic are invalid or just because they are different from your thoughts?

Regardless of how long the conversation has been going on the vast majority of people were not included in the process until the Dev Blogs were posted. I have not once complained about getting a second static my complaint is the way it is being rolled out with very little notice.

Also take your pick you can either state that I don't come here often or that I had plenty of warning but not both. As you stated I obviously don't come to the WH forums often and there I did not have any warning until the dev blog was posted. This does not make my opinions invalid as you seem to think.
Winthorp
#198 - 2014-08-11 04:09:43 UTC
Amgurr Alabel wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Amgurr Alabel wrote:


Trolls will troll can't even come on with a real character because all you are trying to do is harass other people. Probably don't even live in a WH.


You don't come around here often do you?

Your post merely backs up my other post earlier where i said you are another one that has never interacted with any of the discussions about C4's that have been had time and time again and now when changes are happening you carry on like you have had no warning at all. But because i disagree with you i am trolling you right? Sure......


No because you take what I am saying and try to say that I am saying things that I am not.

Because I have not been included in the conversation since the beginning my thoughts on the topic are invalid or just because they are different from your thoughts?

Regardless of how long the conversation has been going on the vast majority of people were not included in the process until the Dev Blogs were posted. I have not once complained about getting a second static my complaint is the way it is being rolled out with very little notice.

Also take your pick you can either state that I don't come here often or that I had plenty of warning but not both. As you stated I obviously don't come to the WH forums often and there I did not have any warning until the dev blog was posted. This does not make my opinions invalid as you seem to think.


As stated before you have plenty of warning which yes make your arguments invalid. Its up to you now what you do with your assets/WH.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#199 - 2014-08-11 04:11:30 UTC
LOL! Another thread with lots of trolling! +1 for these changes. Cant wait to see the static combinations. C4s will now be an almost perfect hive for PVP organisations.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#200 - 2014-08-11 04:26:17 UTC
Fish McCragg wrote:
So I've been thinking about it. . .

At first I was very turned off by the idea of another static in my wormhole, but the more I think about it the more I'm starting to warm up to the idea. That being said, it's not going to do anything to help players become more active in C4 space. Just from the law of averages, it might lead to more random accidental encounters just from the increased travel-through they're likely to see, but balance that against the increased need to turtle to survive and the likelihood that many smaller corps will be moving out, you get a lot of empty space.





It will become more active as PVP corps will want these WHs.... Its basically their gateway to heaven!

Quote:

CCP, if you want larger corps to move in, or you want the current C4 residents to do more pvp, then you need to give us a chance to replace what we lose. As it stands right now, it takes ages to replace even the bare minimum fleet for running the combat sites in there. Whether you're looking at 3 RR Domis, a lone Marauder, or a flock of tengu, the cost for replacing lost ships is too high for C4 corps to remain viable without turtling up.

Say your bare minimum Dominix team is somehow able to run the sites with 3 ships totalling 300m each after fittings. . .
In order to afford a replacement fleet, you'd need to run between 10 and 15 Barracks depending on salvage. Let's say it takes you two weeks to get that many spawned (in my experience, it takes longer). That's about 260 mil in fuel at current Jita prices for one stick. That adds 3 more sites onto the calculation.

Assuming you have NO other expenses, your break even is 13-18 of the best sites in the class before you can afford to lose one bare minimum fleet. Keep in mind, that fleet just barely squeaks by on those sites. The payout for the work just isn't there. People turtle up, not because they're afraid of dying, but because they can't afford to replace their ships on that kind of income.

TL/DR: If you want more activity in C4s, then you need to provide a living wage, yo. People stick to c3s and c5s, avoiding c4s not because of logistics, but because of income potential


LOL! The points are correct but your conclusion is... the opposite of what you were saying... 1 + 1 equals 11 then?

1. You can run C4 sites in a W-R in Assault Frigates. There are other cheap fits you can use for other variable types...
2. You will now have a second static to farm from. ;)

So in fact you should find things are better after Hyperion. But yes I agree with this and other posts that the isk reward in c4's needs to be better as they are only slightly better than c3's and a LONG way from c5's. Although from what I saw earlier Fozzie has hinted they will fix that soon. :)

So in conclusion... Awesome Change! Keep up the great work Fozzie!


Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public