Wormholes

I would love to see ISK value in chimeras killed in pulsars v ISK value of archons in well pretty much all other space including k-space lol - I can think of 3 pulsar chimera losses alone that total ~200bn between them (by the prices at the time). You don't see people doing that in many other areas of eve.

Wouldn't reccomend shield bhaals - though I'm still scratching my head as to how its possible but I've seen 300+K EHP BS single shot by revelations (even wrecking shots shouldn't be that high alpha) let alone moros in C5 pulsars and shield bhaals die stupidly fast to 2-3x dreads even with triage reps to many times not even webbed down or target painted with good transversal.

Check Phoenix Gold's losses - just one example of a couple of people I know who have lost ridiculously expensive chimeras - even the ones goons threw around in my old WH J115933 weren't cheap or the people who had it between us leaving and goons moving in.

Wasn't about who has lost/killed the most expensive chimera it was that pulsars tend to be good hunting ground for bling fit shield ships (by my reckoning even more than you find in any armor or normal effect system armor or shield) and taking away some of the reasons that happens isn't really a good thing IMO.

And yet we're discussing mega isk loss in chimera kills.

So, becuase the chimera can be difficult to kill CCP is is putting the nerf bat to the backside of the deadliest (player losses from their graph) place to hang out????

This is looking more and more like armor fleets (the mainstay of wh pvp) have trouble w/ pulsars, so please ignore actual loss data, pick out some 'extreme situations' (your words not mine) to justify being able to double whack a chimeras capacitor? By the way you just totally fooked all the other ships in the pulsar too. A simple geddon will be able to render bassi and scimmi totally useless.

Maybe take your eyes off the chimera that the magician is pointing to and look at what is really going on.

For those that aren't super graph savvy, if you delete the rarely used black hole stats from the comparison the pulsar becomes even more lopsided in how many players lose their ships there with respect to the others, but is still on par w/ npc kills with the others (well, magnetar kills will rocket up pretty high, but that's another discussion no one seems to want to have)

I think some of the adjustments are more about pandering to the squeeky wheels than trying to even out the wh data.

I don't remember seeing anyone actually ask for changes to pulsars, even given the fortress level capitals that can reside there. If you deck a capital out in officer mods people can and will go to the necessary efforts to kill it. So, I don't even know who CCP would be pandering to.

That being said, I still consider this reasonable and interesting. Yes, the neuting will be heavier, but it doesn't totally negate subcaps or something. Just use Ishtars and scimis and stay out of neut range. Or the Hamgu/Scimi combination I references earlier. You can still use basis, just stay at range and make sure things that neut get webbed so they can't close range on your logi.

Also, you said "double whack" the chimeras capacitor, but perhaps I'm just not understanding the term. The neuting is stronger, but so is the regen...so it's just providing an option to effectively apply capacitor warfare.

Armor fleets are still going to be horrible in pulsars...a neut bonus did not change that.

Nothing about pulsars makes them deadlier to a player. It's a tank system. It helps you both with raw EHP (that can result in passive regen tank) and capacitor. If a ton of people are dying there, it's because of some other factor like it being a popular system for PVE players who get hunted. Definitely not because of the system bonuses.

Something in pulsars does make them deadlier to a play. The graph clearly shows that. My real point is I'd like an answer on why they are getting nerfed if they are already the least survivable. I really don't see how it matters if it's popular for pve (which based on the npc kill graph isn't so - magnatar is popular).

Like I said, I've read all the 'fortress chimera' stuff. I get the sentiment, but the neut bonus doesn't only apply when neuting a chimera. It clobbers every cap in an already hard to survive in wh.

Maybe all the losses are because pulsar dwellers are extra bad at eve. I'm not sure how any justification for the higher losses matter. I think the fact that it's where all the ships are being lost AND STILL CCP sees a need to nerf it. In the pulsar change it speaks only to capital capacitor recharge rates and doesn't aknowledge subcap ships.

Taking a second look at the graphs


It just doesn't add up. I'm asking Fozzilicious to explain this nerf that defies his set of graphs.

My analysis of the graph they posted but I fail at linking.

Black Hole
- a lot of nothing happens here. it's a deserted alley that pilots cut through to get from here to there
-what needs to change - there's so much in the way of ideas out there - have at it ccp

Cataclysmic Variable
-not a lot going on in here either.
-what needs to change -Probably nothing - there are only sporadic complaints about carrier spider tanks.

Magnetar
- a lot of pve happens here (note the big blue bar), but not a lot of pvp (note the little red bar)
- a lot of total events logged - folks living here pve hard then rage roll hard for pvp
-what needs to change - the ability to alpha ships from range w/ tier 3 battle cruisers as soon as they jump in would move pvp into magnatars so maybe they wouldn't need to rage roll into other systems for pvp.

Pulsar
-abover average pve and way above average pvp losses
-this is the wh that magnatar/wolf rayet and red giant denizens roll into to pvp (successfully based on the big red bar)
what needs to change - double cap regen rates so these poor guys have a chance (OK j/k)
what really needs to change - probably nothing - If fortress chimera occaisionally wins... it's probably a good thing.

Red Giant
-median pve, not many losses and a lot of total events
-pve isn't optimal (reference magnatar) but is servicable
-these guys also role for pvp
-what needs to change - I like the bomb angle - I hope it adds more pvp to this type of wh

Wolf-Rayet
-above average pve
-minimal losses and lots of rage rolling
-might attribute fewer pvp losses to wh effects lining up w/ the armor doctrine that most wh corps maintain.
-what needs to change - probably nothing. It's got the highest activity so what's not to like?

Overall Dr. Lost prescription: Black holes have been over debated for years, so not going there. Magnetars - if you take away the ability to alpha things before a fight gets going I think pvp would pick up a bit. Slaughter house.... er... Pulsar - don't nerf pvp there - seriously wtf? I would let pulsar/cataclysmic variable/wolf-rayet alone and see how the other changes ballance out your little graphs. Then take the next step.

This will affect fleet strength and tactics when PVP occurs

but since PVP is usually non-consensual it will have little direct effect on how often PVP occurs in any given wh system.

Poor WH farming conditions leads to empty systems when a roam group passes through.
Instead improved farming conditions in a WH system means a better chance farmers will get into PVP with intruders.

Or you can make a system a bottleneck in travel routes especially for trade. Frequent travellers in system especially rich convoys may lead to WH "gate camps".


P.S. Yeah environmental conditions can make a system less desirable to farm and especially to permanently settle and defend.

But bad environment can be countered by more, richer, or unique sites to be farmed.

So current black hole isn't broken just no one wants to adapt? Or maybe it is broken and that's why so very little happens in one and this change to CV will end up breaking CV. And since I live in a CV I'm pretty good at adapting (considering every time one of us says we live in one the average response is "why would you live in a CV?". There are not enough mid slots to rethink a guardian fit and basi is slightly more cap hungry as is and that will be even more pronounced with a nerf to ET. Oneiros and Scimitar don't work very well in sites due to their cap getting alpha'd by the sleepers on a cap esc and their much easier ability to get nueted in pvp, and yes that is even with the increase to cap capacity. Do you really think we haven't sat down tried to figure work arounds to these changes? I personally EFT warrior as a way to pass the time inbetweeen pvp/pve and I've been doing so now. On that note which do you think is easier EFT warrioring until you find a fit that works or fighting an uphill battle to stop bad changes from being done?...not to mention I'm not a big fan of writing to begin with. The end result is Fozzie is gambling on people out there figuring out some magical fit that works in his proposed changes, however the slots these ships have simply do not allow such a thing to happen. You must devote so many slots to tank and soon so many slots to cap regen, once you have done that there simply are no slots left over for eccm or AB and ANY logi with no eccm or AB is a gimped logi.

CVs are being evacuated by everyone.
C4's are being evacuated by bears.
C4's are being moved into by PVP corps.
WR's are highly sought after, even more so now (people are just bitching to throw everyone else off the scent)

BH's...not sure what the trend is here, but I can only predict activity, and occupancy, goes up.

This is for two reasons. Number one, 100MN Tengus become sorta viable for PVE, and look good on paper for PVP. Everyone loves their Ishtars, but it's not much fun having enemies scoot out of your drone control range inside 10 seconds. Plus, lel, scooping drones (especially Warriors) is impossible above C3 BH.

The nerf to web effectiveness is just stupid, there I said it, thanks for making this Nightmares and 100MN Tengus all the way down. Except you had to put it in, didn't you Fozzie, to reduce blap dreads?

And when you get to the top end of town, in C5 BH's, blap Phoenixes everywhere. Mark my words, the NPC kills in C5 and C6 BH space is going to go off the charts. It doesn't matter if web effectiveness is less when you have uber Citadel Cruise Phoenixes flooding 8 dreads at a time into sites. TP's are unafffected.

In fact, it's almost laughable how many moros and Naglfar are going to be put on the market by the people moving in to C5 BH's because the ineffectiveness of the webs will render them pointless. Especially in PVP. Whereas the Cruise Phoenix will reign supreme.