Wormholes

Lol CCP, i dont even live in wormholes and this sounds terrible.

It would change the meta which is not exactly the same as the end of all life. I thought everyone was tired of t3 fleet as the fleet for every occasion? This change sounds very similar to jumping through a regional gate into another gang and that happens every day in other regions of space. Scouts get killed doing it also although it is a bit more difficult to catch them. It might even be more fun as it would greatly expand the number of viable doctrines. More options is usually more interesting. Perhaps the numbers used for spawn distance are off but conceptually I kinda like it.

I just wish that CCP would actually play the game in wormholes and base their opinion of what needs to be done off that rather than sitting and listening to CSM candidates who have no idea what they're talking about (in this case I'm specifically talking about Chitsa).

I just want to slam my fist to my desk any time I see stupid changes being made w-space just willy nilly (I'm looking at you CCP FoxFour). "OH ITS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE GAME, LETS TAKE IT OUT" They just don't even pay any attention to balance or meta-game implications.

If you really want to have mass have an impact, why not apply to in k-space to gates? So frigs can land at like 5 km, and BS at like 30 km. Even better, apply it to cynos. Titans at 100 km, supers at 50 km, carriers/dreads at 5-10 km. OH WAIT, that won't happen because everybody knows it would ruin everything from gang pvp with triage to huge supercap fights. I just cannot even fathom the thought process of the supposed veteran game designers at CCP. How long have you been doing this? Why can't you get it right for once, or even better, if you don't know if you can, how about you go and do research by playing the game.

If the reasons why this change is bad have to be explained to you, then you shouldn't be in charge of making the decisions on gameplay changes in W-space. This is very very very clear when EVREY SINGLE PERSON in this thread is saying the change is bad. Are they all extremely analytic metagamers? NO THEY'RE NOT, they're normal wormhole players. That alone tells me that whoever is in charge of wormholes at the moment has no clue what they're doing and does not even play the game in the area they're in charge of designing.

Baffling.

I DO not acknowledge this .. as it would RUIN WH space.. Id suggest reversing it at least with bigger mass closer u are.. but having caps ending up 40km off a wh.. thats just disappointing.. maybe allow frigs and such end up at further range would make more sense..

Corbexx, as a career wormholer, the problem is that this is a breaking enough change that the first response, a little bit kneejerk I will admit, is to sigh and unsubscribe, because it's actually pretty hard to think that folks who thought that

a) this was a good idea
b) was perfectly fine to just toss in unannounced

are going to not kill w-space in some way, and I really don't want to watch the trainwreck - I'd prefer the years of good memories. You're going to have to work through a ton of people's pure white-hot, unmitigated rage before real civilized discourse becomes linkely. This will take time.

I am all for making things more risky, I don't mind change.. when its a good thing. But in my opinion, letting caps spawn 40k off the WH and two caps being 80k off etc I think will stagnate WHs more. Thats why I wonder if letting smaller ships spwn further and heavier ships spawn less far isnt that better. It iwll increase risk, but not to a point that people wont fight no more or stop rolling. Especially for smaller groups, this not a good change.

Pros: This will make ganking people rolling WHs easier

Cons: Rolling a WH will take forever
People ( especially farmers) may be less likely to just roll Whs given the difficulty and just log when scary K16s pop up

I am assuming the numbers will change so ill reserve saying I definitely support, or am definitely against.

I like the idea, but 40+ km is enough that its going to be more of a PITA than a aid in ganking.

For all of our sake's sanity, I'll summarise everything that I've seen mentioned about it:

- Ragerolling (one of the primary methods of finding content) will be slowed down
- Capital rolling (one of the primary methods of smaller groups controlling fights against larger groups) will be completely removed
- Commiting capitals to fights will be impossible, or at least highly stupid. Archons will spawn away from support groups. Dreads will spawn away from Archons (which they use to refit into combat fits)
- Sub-C5 rolling will be ridiculous. Orcas/Battleships will be easier to point. Orcas are a big enough problem.
- Rolling (at all) will be slowed down. You'll have to build up hole control outside of the immediate hole to prevent people from tackling your caps.

This isn't going to make wormholes any more attractive to new people, which is what we need. The problem with wormholes isn't the mechanics. The problem is the population density. We need more small-mid sized groups, and this doesn't favour them at all and removes one of the few things that they can do to balance out the 30-50 man gangs that are starting to appear in wormsec.

I don't understand the intent of this change. I can't see what this brings to the game. At the moment, when a new wormhole appears in our home system we have what is essentially a flowchart.

1. Establish where the wormhole is
2. Establish who lives in the wormhole
3. Check how many people they have online, compared to how many we have online
4. Decide if we can take a fight
5. If yes, form up and bait
6. If no, form up to roll their hole
7. Once fight is over, roll hole to find new content
8. Go back to sig watch

This change removes Step 6 from the chain, and replaces it with "If no, POS spin until they establish hole control to roll it". That isn't a healthy change. No game should be based around AFK'ing for four hours and doing nothing. Wormholes already have problems with content, and creating a situation in which corps can't get rid of blocks to content (people that they can't deal with because they're too big or because they don't have people online to deal with it) will make it even more tedious.

Fix the problems with wormholes first. The terrible POS mechanics, for instance, and the necessity on caps to make C5/C6 more profitable than C4 holes. Increase the number of random holes further: bigger chains means more availability of content. We've asked for short-duration holes to be a thing, and I'd love to see short-duration high-mass holes to do J->J links. But this isn't the thread to talk about solutions, it's a thread to talk about how bad this idea is.

Larger groups want to be able to rage roll, smaller groups want to be able to counter roll. Who does this benefit?

Perhaps the numbers are off, perhaps smaller should spawn further instead or perhaps everyone should be in a fixed radius distance, but the mere idea of changing spawns to be further out does not sound terrible. In fact I can think of lots of interesting advantages.

-1 Interesting concept, but it seems like it will just discourage PvP in WH space. We cant YOLO caps into null now b/c when they cyno in five titans to drive be DD we can't hop back to saftey. If we wanted to fight the blob we would live in nullsec. Zzzzzzz