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Refunding skill points in industry
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Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#41 - 2014-07-31 13:07:42 UTC
OP forgot EVE rule no.1 if you trained more then a week for something CCP will change it.

Hence one should find "Fluff" reason to enjoy the game or something CCP can't break.
I, as an example, adore this amazing amarr hoods and CCP will never take this hood from me.
Victor Andall
#42 - 2014-07-31 13:18:02 UTC
I trained Missiles once but now I don't use them anymore. Please refund me, CCP.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#43 - 2014-07-31 13:24:01 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:

TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.


Wait, this is a new thing?

(PS - You can access NullSec ores just 1jump from HiSec. If you're smart and adventurous you can figure out how!)

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-07-31 13:51:27 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
Anyways cruis was to game changing and maybe eve will struggle on. But you guys are right I am leaving. Watching its birth in 03 to the new player hating community in 14 is saddening. Thanks for the 11 years CCP.


Guys, EVE is dying! This one super important guy can't figure his **** out so EVE is dying! This guys profit margin went down a little bit so EVE is dying. He can't make enough in High-sec without a POS than he can in null so EVE is dying.

RIP in peace EVE, DM was the glue holding you together but he's gone now


mfw your bottom
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#45 - 2014-07-31 13:54:52 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
OP forgot EVE rule no.1 if you trained more then a week for something CCP will change it.

Hence one should find "Fluff" reason to enjoy the game or something CCP can't break.
I, as an example, adore this amazing amarr hoods and CCP will never take this hood from me.


Next patch, Hoods get nerfed. Bet you 5 bucks . Big smile
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-07-31 13:57:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
OP forgot EVE rule no.1 if you trained more then a week for something CCP will change it.

Hence one should find "Fluff" reason to enjoy the game or something CCP can't break.
I, as an example, adore this amazing amarr hoods and CCP will never take this hood from me.


Next patch, Hoods get nerfed. Bet you 5 bucks . Big smile


I heard they're making all shades and glasses into contact lenses in Hyperion.Roll

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-07-31 14:50:00 UTC
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
I fully expect CCP executives to empty all the accounts they can one day and flee the country.


I'd expect they're more apt to buy the country and kick everyone else out. They seem to like the climate.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

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Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Studio Ghibli
The Directorate Council
The Rogue Consortium
#48 - 2014-07-31 20:14:04 UTC
OP,

Here is a constructive option.

Move to Providence null-sec. Receive the null-sec mining/industrial benefit.

I live there. :)
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-07-31 20:39:54 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec, and you know, they should make more because 0.0 is "dangerous". Depending on where you are or what can happen. But that doesn't mean CCP should have made it that much more profitable to now either get your own station or move to null. Now I can hardly make 20 mill in an hour and a half with perfect orca boosts. Which is insane considering I was making almost 35 million isk an hour before cruis. There is also no reason to ever risk flying a hulk in hi security space. The time it takes to pay off the thing makes it illogical to fly.

I'm sure people will quote other game changes in the past as justification for making people stick out or move on with the new changes. But when you consider I have the equivalent of every learning skill at 5, in mining skill points. And can make more isk an hour blitzing level 3's for SOE, well any corp. Why should the reward be so low for so much time invested? Also I had over 100% refine before the cruis changes. And I know they boosted the mineral reprocessing amounts. But CCP could have at least gave me the option of having what is now perfect instead of forcing me to train 4 months of level 5 industry skills and use an implant slot just to get back to the isk and refine equivalent of before.

I am not disagreeing with CCP's mind set to change industry to improve it in the long run. I just no longer wish to be forced to use a remap and go back to skills that for years were considered perfect for high sec space. Just to see a few more mill an hour return. Or they could have at least done like they did with battle cruisers and let me have equal returns for my skill point investment. Either way I feel the changes are altering enough to merit the option of redirecting my skill points. Also because if I have the option to shoot red boxes or to shoot stationary gray boxes. I will hands down always choose to shoot the more profitable one. Especially when it is now 3-4x the isk an hour.

TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.

Thank you for reading, what is your opinion? Should I adapt or die, or will this almost 7 million skill point deficit be stuck on my character.



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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#50 - 2014-07-31 21:23:00 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Digital Messiah wrote:
This community like almost all others has become so toxic. No one will take a look at how changes effect balance in the game. So far the only thing any one has said is can I have your stuff, and adapt or die. Looking back I now don't see why I spent countless hours trying to convince CCP to balance systems such as drones or hybrids. The work I put into spreadsheets and balance discussions mean nothing today. Perhaps I have bitter vet syndrome or maybe I just don't like seeing the league of legends community get likes because the only thing that is considered cool and enjoyable is being negative on the forum or forced pvp on players. Anyways cruis was to game changing and maybe eve will struggle on. But you guys are right I am leaving. Watching its birth in 03 to the new player hating community in 14 is saddening. Thanks for the 11 years CCP. No you can not have my things, you will just let them sit in hanger while you troll general discussion for likes from people you don't know so you can impress other people who don't know or care who you are.

To James 315 who just ganked me in under 15 seconds in high security space. You are part of the problem. And killing me for having an opinion is childish. Even more so is the griefing which you continue to call fair and balanced play. Enjoy moving to 0.0 guys, im sure helping to pay someones mortgage and the on going and never resolved issue of RMT is going to be fun. Watching SWG die the same fate and knowing the people who did only play for irl funds. I can see EVE heading down the same path.

Congratulations btw on removing someone who has helped countless new players and strived to make the game better finally give up. Enjoy throwing sand.


TL;DR - I'm quitting because my spreadsheets are worthless now & a big meanie ganked me. Also something about the Dinsdale nullsec RMT cartel bandwagon.


BTW, thanks for invoking my name in a thread I had not even posted in. You guys clearly have as much fixation with me as I do with fighting you.


Ain't about you Jayne. It's about what they need.

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I invented Tiericide
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#51 - 2014-07-31 22:48:07 UTC
Become toxic? Most people on here have always been toxic for as long as I can remember. Can I have your stuff? I qualify for two reasons.

1. I don't troll the forums. I'm one of the few people who will actually engage in an intellectual conversation.

2. It won't sit in station. Whatever I can't use directly, its isk value I can use.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-08-01 00:44:21 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
I fully expect CCP executives to empty all the accounts they can one day and flee the country.


I'd expect they're more apt to buy the country and kick everyone else out. They seem to like the climate.



Iceland has a population of 320,000

Sell the country to China or Japan or something for 300 trillion or so and that gives everyone a million each to move to the Bahamas or somewhere with a warmer climate.
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#53 - 2014-08-01 01:09:10 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec, and you know, they should make more because 0.0 is "dangerous". Depending on where you are or what can happen. But that doesn't mean CCP should have made it that much more profitable to now either get your own station or move to null. Now I can hardly make 20 mill in an hour and a half with perfect orca boosts. Which is insane considering I was making almost 35 million isk an hour before cruis. There is also no reason to ever risk flying a hulk in hi security space. The time it takes to pay off the thing makes it illogical to fly.

I'm sure people will quote other game changes in the past as justification for making people stick out or move on with the new changes. But when you consider I have the equivalent of every learning skill at 5, in mining skill points. And can make more isk an hour blitzing level 3's for SOE, well any corp. Why should the reward be so low for so much time invested? Also I had over 100% refine before the cruis changes. And I know they boosted the mineral reprocessing amounts. But CCP could have at least gave me the option of having what is now perfect instead of forcing me to train 4 months of level 5 industry skills and use an implant slot just to get back to the isk and refine equivalent of before.

I am not disagreeing with CCP's mind set to change industry to improve it in the long run. I just no longer wish to be forced to use a remap and go back to skills that for years were considered perfect for high sec space. Just to see a few more mill an hour return. Or they could have at least done like they did with battle cruisers and let me have equal returns for my skill point investment. Either way I feel the changes are altering enough to merit the option of redirecting my skill points. Also because if I have the option to shoot red boxes or to shoot stationary gray boxes. I will hands down always choose to shoot the more profitable one. Especially when it is now 3-4x the isk an hour.

TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.

Thank you for reading, what is your opinion? Should I adapt or die, or will this almost 7 million skill point deficit be stuck on my character.


No CCP will not give your skill points back to anyone.

CCP has the rights to change the game content at their discretion.

CCP did mention this in the dev blogs what their plans for Cyrus was going to be.

And yes why not go to Low sec space if you don't want to go to 0.0

And as I always say EvE is working as Intended

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-08-01 01:10:21 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The null sec cartel's completely control CCP, and Eve.
Their well-documented goal is to destroy high sec, of which mining was (pre-Crius), still a marginally a profitable occupation, if you did not mind the cartel funded griefers like CODE.

Now, it is garbage, like most other things in high sec. (BTW, level 4's and Incursions are targeted, since they are the only semi-profitable things left in high sec left).

So why the shock?

Much of the player base has already recognized this (note the ACU and PCU), and demonstrated their opinion with their wallets.
Naturally, the propagandists will be out in full force to outshout and even censor this truth in minutes. But even after they get this post removed, the truth will remain: the amount of people willing to put up with this is dwindling, and CCP is in deep trouble, whether they recognize it or not.


Alex Jones makes more sense than you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-08-01 01:58:53 UTC
Ton'Ka Katsu wrote:
so this patch did what code was trying to do? break the miners?

also guys without miners no minerals come in, then nothing gets built, then we can no pvp. do we really want the miners to quit?


No, I think it's more a question of where it gets done and who profits from that change then whether or not mining needs to continue.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-08-01 02:39:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I move that we make a violation of the forum rules to ask for skill refunds.


I'll see this and raise you to make it a violation to ask refunds for anything in-game. ANYTHING!

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Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-08-01 03:39:54 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
I trained Missiles once but now I don't use them anymore. Please refund me, CCP.

This. I want all of muh SP back that I trained to run perma-MWD Drakes...and Hurricanes...and everything else that ever got nerfed.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2014-08-01 04:25:52 UTC
Lucian Trask
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#59 - 2014-08-01 18:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Trask
My understanding of it was. Your refining % might have gone down, but the ore's yield has gone up. So regardless of what you refining % was prior to the change, you will get the same amount of minerals now as the increased ores yield had gone up to compensate ?

If anything its a buff to you as if you were perfect refining before you the you will get the same amount of minerals as before the change, but because old perfect is no longer perfect you can continue to train a few other skills to get more minerals than you did before. Think of it as raising the level cap. Your no worst off now... but with more training you can be better off than prior change?

A diablo player explained it to me, and did so in the following way... Its like diablo got his hp buffed by 10%, but you also got you damage out put buffed by 10% so their is no difference you wont notice any change - however the damage cap point has also been raised by 15% on top of that so - with a bit of work you can raise your damage 15% higher and be better off that before the change.

The guy telling me how the change effects refining could have been talking nonsense though, he tends to do that from time to time. so correct me if im wrong.

Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris
Velicitia
XS Tech
#60 - 2014-08-01 18:40:03 UTC
Lucian Trask wrote:
My understanding of it was. Your refining % might have gone down, but the ore's yield has gone up. So regardless of what you refining % was prior to the change, you will get the same amount of minerals now as the increased ores yield had gone up to compensate ?

If anything its a buff to you as if you were perfect refining before you the you will get the same amount of minerals as before the change, but because old perfect is no longer perfect you can continue to train a few other skills to get more minerals than you did before. Think of it as raising the level cap. Your no worst off now... but with more training you can be better off than prior change?

A diablo player explained it to me, and did so in the following way... Its like diablo got his hp buffed by 10%, but you also got you damage out put buffed by 10% so their is no difference you wont notice any change - however the damage cap point has also been raised by 15% on top of that so - with a bit of work you can raise your damage 15% higher and be better off that before the change.

The guy telling me how the change effects refining could have been talking nonsense though, he tends to do that from time to time. so correct me if im wrong.


In order to get the equivalent of "100% refine" these days, you need all the skills to 5, as well as the 4% implant. Prior to this, you only needed 5/4/3 (or thereabouts) to get "100%". So, if you had perfect before, you won't necessarily have "perfect" (or, rather, 72.4% in an NPC station) now.

However, yes, there are facilities now that will allow you to go beyond this 72.4% yield.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia