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Refunding skill points in industry

Author
Asia Leigh
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#61 - 2014-08-01 18:45:42 UTC
Lucian Trask wrote:
My understanding of it was. Your refining % might have gone down, but the ore's yield has gone up. So regardless of what you refining % was prior to the change, you will get the same amount of minerals now as the increased ores yield had gone up to compensate ?

If anything its a buff to you as if you were perfect refining before you the you will get the same amount of minerals as before the change, but because old perfect is no longer perfect you can continue to train a few other skills to get more minerals than you did before. Think of it as raising the level cap. Your no worst off now... but with more training you can be better off than prior change?

A diablo player explained it to me, and did so in the following way... Its like diablo got his hp buffed by 10%, but you also got you damage out put buffed by 10% so their is no difference you wont notice any change - however the damage cap point has also been raised by 15% on top of that so - with a bit of work you can raise your damage 15% higher and be better off that before the change.

The guy telling me how the change effects refining could have been talking nonsense though, he tends to do that from time to time. so correct me if im wrong.


More or less this ^^^

You get aprox the same yield mineral wise as before the patch with your current skill set. If you further train into the refining skills, and use the implant you get more yield then before the patch. With the massive buff to the POS refining arrays you can make even more. Compressed ore has also gone up considerably in demand with the massive nerf to the module to mineral ratio.

OP is either a bad troll, or incredibly stupid and lazy... I haven't decided yet, but I suspect its a little of both...
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Lucian Trask
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#62 - 2014-08-01 18:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Trask
Velicitia wrote:
Lucian Trask wrote:
My understanding of it was. Your refining % might have gone down, but the ore's yield has gone up. So regardless of what you refining % was prior to the change, you will get the same amount of minerals now as the increased ores yield had gone up to compensate ?

If anything its a buff to you as if you were perfect refining before you the you will get the same amount of minerals as before the change, but because old perfect is no longer perfect you can continue to train a few other skills to get more minerals than you did before. Think of it as raising the level cap. Your no worst off now... but with more training you can be better off than prior change?

A diablo player explained it to me, and did so in the following way... Its like diablo got his hp buffed by 10%, but you also got you damage out put buffed by 10% so their is no difference you wont notice any change - however the damage cap point has also been raised by 15% on top of that so - with a bit of work you can raise your damage 15% higher and be better off that before the change.

The guy telling me how the change effects refining could have been talking nonsense though, he tends to do that from time to time. so correct me if im wrong.


In order to get the equivalent of "100% refine" these days, you need all the skills to 5, as well as the 4% implant. Prior to this, you only needed 5/4/3 (or thereabouts) to get "100%". So, if you had perfect before, you won't necessarily have "perfect" (or, rather, 72.4% in an NPC station) now.

However, yes, there are facilities now that will allow you to go beyond this 72.4% yield.


But isn't it all relative. If I had the skills for the old perfect and got x amount of minerals for 20 mins of vledspar mining last month.. Ill get the same amount of minerals now as before once the ore is refined.. with the option to train up higher skills and get the implant to get beyond what the old max was?

Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris

Asia Leigh
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#63 - 2014-08-01 18:50:30 UTC
Lucian Trask wrote:


But because of the ore mineral increase, wont the you get the same amount of minerals as what the old perfect used to be ?


It may be a little bit of a loss if you don't use the inplant, but its nowhere as bad as the OP makes it sound. I make more or less the same isk/hr off mining and refining as I did before the patch in high sec. I make a little more in W-space as the refining arrays got buffed. Now that you can put up a tower anywhere in highsec w/o standings, you can make that amount of isk in high sec as well.

OP is just lazy.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Lucian Trask
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#64 - 2014-08-01 19:01:34 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Lucian Trask wrote:


But because of the ore mineral increase, wont the you get the same amount of minerals as what the old perfect used to be ?


It may be a little bit of a loss if you don't use the inplant, but its nowhere as bad as the OP makes it sound. I make more or less the same isk/hr off mining and refining as I did before the patch in high sec. I make a little more in W-space as the refining arrays got buffed. Now that you can put up a tower anywhere in highsec w/o standings, you can make that amount of isk in high sec as well.

OP is just lazy.



This sounds right to me .

OP. you are not worst off.. and you now have options to be better off.


Personally I never refined before, I stock piled ore then moved it to jita and sold it. Now im still stock piling ore + buying ore for a fair price from noobs in my system -3% what the highest buy order is in jita. Im going to set a small p.o.s up compress my stock pile and again take to jita or another hub and put sell orders up. - also buy orders are poping up for higher than the trade hubs in large amounts on the out skirts of highsec )

Do the same... or refine and be happy that its the same or near the same as prior the big change, or continue to train and be better off than you ever were, I don't see a problem here.

/ thread.

Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris

Gaudy Lane
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-08-01 19:59:48 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec, and you know, they should make more because 0.0 is "dangerous". Depending on where you are or what can happen. But that doesn't mean CCP should have made it that much more profitable to now either get your own station or move to null. Now I can hardly make 20 mill in an hour and a half with perfect orca boosts. Which is insane considering I was making almost 35 million isk an hour before cruis. There is also no reason to ever risk flying a hulk in hi security space. The time it takes to pay off the thing makes it illogical to fly.

I'm sure people will quote other game changes in the past as justification for making people stick out or move on with the new changes. But when you consider I have the equivalent of every learning skill at 5, in mining skill points. And can make more isk an hour blitzing level 3's for SOE, well any corp. Why should the reward be so low for so much time invested? Also I had over 100% refine before the cruis changes. And I know they boosted the mineral reprocessing amounts. But CCP could have at least gave me the option of having what is now perfect instead of forcing me to train 4 months of level 5 industry skills and use an implant slot just to get back to the isk and refine equivalent of before.

I am not disagreeing with CCP's mind set to change industry to improve it in the long run. I just no longer wish to be forced to use a remap and go back to skills that for years were considered perfect for high sec space. Just to see a few more mill an hour return. Or they could have at least done like they did with battle cruisers and let me have equal returns for my skill point investment. Either way I feel the changes are altering enough to merit the option of redirecting my skill points. Also because if I have the option to shoot red boxes or to shoot stationary gray boxes. I will hands down always choose to shoot the more profitable one. Especially when it is now 3-4x the isk an hour.

TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.

Thank you for reading, what is your opinion? Should I adapt or die, or will this almost 7 million skill point deficit be stuck on my character.


I would be ok with the refund, but your account would have to return any ISK you made with your industry skills.