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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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13 nonames
Jumpbridg
#101 - 2014-07-22 08:32:19 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
If we were to drink the koolaid here and agree. Then for the sake of balance, once you've passed the 3 month date then everyone must leave hisec.

The fact that the majority of players are in hisec is reflective of it being too easy to eek out a living there. So as a result the gankers move to where the herds are.

Push the fish out of the barrel and people won't have to come there to shoot them. And as a side effect you get stronger bigger fish and better fishermen to catch them.


Froggy lets look at the fact that iv been to null played in every major alliance in the game and still play in an f.a. corp on my alt most player don't hate null they hate that every alliance down there seem to think that its there god given right to say you must be here 24 hour a day 7 days a week and **** you your not aloud to have a real life. that is why 95% of eve is not in null
13 nonames
Jumpbridg
#102 - 2014-07-22 08:34:23 UTC
flakeys wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street as well as a faster response time for concord and a new sytem put in place that makes it so the concord on your grid will aggress new and old criminals not just faction police



Why do people ask for such things ONLY when they have lost a ship due to this and not before?You're playing since 2011 yet this is the first time you ask for this and it won't be a coincidence that the day you made this thread you lost an orca in empire now is it?

You knew about this tactic before yet had no problems with it untill you yourself fell victim to it.That is what i call being a hypo .


i have asked for this long b4 that loss
13 nonames
Jumpbridg
#103 - 2014-07-22 08:37:24 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I agree with a number of posts here. That sec status should not be purchasable.



It's a game where we all play our own little mini game in , allways been that way and i LOVE EvE for that reason.That is the beauty of eve however it immediatly also is the biggest problem CCP has with it.You just have to keep an eye on every type of gamestyle being possbile without effecting the other play style too much.

I think i have played out allmost every playstyle there is in eve except for ganking/incursions/wormholes and i can not remember complaining at any time that ''my playstyle'' needed some help in regards to be safer from another playstyle.I allways try to keep a reasonable look on the ways others play too and as such usually more hang towards ''nerfing'' my own playstyle then that of others.


The question is though , when is one playstyle becoming too much favoured towards the other that it needs CCP to come in between and in that regard i am happy to not work at the CCP office ....


its a shame they never do that for industrialist
Black Pedro
Mine.
#104 - 2014-07-22 09:24:17 UTC
Saar Ynier wrote:

Decided to pop my head back in here ever so slightly, wont be staying around long.

Again, people decide to cherry pick my replies. No where did I state tags are inexpensive. Please go back and read through all of my replies and understand what I am saying before you comment.

Let me make it easy:

- I am not on about all gankers. I respect the gankers who are -5 and below and actually in a corp (not just some random NPC corp ganker that cant be wardecced (for example)), to operate and pull off ganks on people whilst moving around with faction police and players shooting you is commendable.

- I am on about the gankers who ONLY gank for profit rather than fun. The gankers that ONLY gank high value haulers.

- I am on about the people who spend all day ganking high value haulers and dont allow their sec status to drop below -4.0

- ONE gank that drops 400 mill of loot (I gave examples of these players in an earlier post) pays for them to repair their sec status that they have lost over a period of a few day. Over the period of said few days they have gone from being 0.2 to -3.9 (for arguments sake) and have ganked oh I dunno 20 ships each carring 700 - 800 million each.

- I am aware that this wont stop while people haul massive amounts in T1 haulers like idiots.

- It is far too easy for those people mentioned above to repair sec status, using only one high value gank.

- I was considering getting an alt for doing this myself because from sitting in Josemeta and watching how they do it and what they get have allowed me to see how its done. Consideration is done and my alt is created, there is far to much ISK to be had due to idiots and untanked haulers that I just had to have spme of the action. I still maintain the fact that it is far too easy for these people mentioned to repair their sec status and negate security loss however...

Anywho, most will again, skim read my post and cherry pick it to make out I am talking about something else entirely, so from now on I won't be returning to this thread. Enjoy you discussion. Smile


May I respectfully suggest that your feelings of persecution in this thread come from the fact that you haven't fully thought through your argument? Reading your post, I take away that you have (or may have?) two main issues with the ganking of T1 industrials:

1) That the activity is too profitable. You seem to resent that a ganker can make hundreds of millions of ISK in a single gank yet you state that you are ok with ganking in general as long as it is done for the right reasons (fun?). So you would be ok if a ganker (keeping her sec-status with tags) blew up haulers all day but at a net ISK loss by using some other way to fund the activity (like a New Order-style ship replacement program)? If so, how is this any different from the perspective of the gankee? If anything, it will teach haulers that what they carry doesn't matter since ganking is random, and to fit for max cargo and overload every time. And perhaps some players find "ganking for profit" the same as "ganking for fun"? Who are you to tell them what their motivations should be?

2) That sec-status can be exchanged for between players via tags. Recovering sec-status has been possible since the beginning of Eve. The only thing the sec-for-tags system allows is that a player (not just gankers, but low-sec PvPers, pirates and others) to "contract out" the time required to rebuild the sec-status to another via the market. This not only creates the new mini-profession of tag farmer, but creates new targets for low-sec pirates thus generating "content". CCP likes this because it is a win-win-win situation where the ganker, tag-farmer and low-sec pirate all gain content/ISK from this mechanism. All it does is allow a player to outsource some of the grind to another making this perhaps a little more efficient for each of them (and they get to spend more time doing what they enjoy in the game), but does not change fundamentally anything about how the game is designed.

So you can see why people are confused. If you are arguing to remove the tags-for-sec mechanism you will either force gankers to operate at -10 (which will have little effect from the perspective of the gankee and they will still make the same, actually even more, profit), or spend some of their time ratting/missioning to recover sec-status on their own. The second, and the first to a lesser extent, is effectively a nerf to ganking which you claim not to support. This is all not to mention the detrimental effect on other low-sec denizens that use the tags to offset the sec hits of their low-sec PVP.

If you think ganking haulers is too profitable then go do it! Not only will you make some of the profit you seem to resent others taking, but you will help teach haulers not to overload their ships. in the long run this will create less targets for the gankers, and therefore less ganks, and ultimately reduce the need for tags-for-sec (which seems to bother you so much) in the first place. Also, you will gain some experience and see how the tags-for-sec is just really a minor quality-of-life improvement that doesn't change the mechanics or economics of ganking that much.

What you probably shouldn't do is come to the forums and demand changes to the game because you think someone else has it too easy or is making too much profit in their chosen profession (which you are not participating in).






The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#105 - 2014-07-22 09:39:39 UTC
Saar Ynier wrote:

Anywho, most will again, skim read my post and cherry pick it to make out I am talking about something else entirely, so from now on I won't be returning to this thread. Enjoy you discussion. Smile


Oh, no need whatsoever to cherry pick or chopquote.

Every point you tried to make is wrong. See how easy that was?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2014-07-22 09:50:05 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Then how do the pirates make isk? Or do you just want to run around in your officer fit ravens without any worry and making stacks of isk safely



You know that there are other 2 characte slots in an account? And a single alt with 1 million isk in a trade hub is enough to generate 2-3 billion isk per month with very little effort. More than enough to keep a pirate ongoing.


The Only problem in high sec ganking are destroyers. THey are too cheap for their firepower. Make the fact that concord will kill you irrelevant.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jaxi Wreckful
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#107 - 2014-07-22 11:10:02 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Then how do the pirates make isk? Or do you just want to run around in your officer fit ravens without any worry and making stacks of isk safely



You know that there are other 2 characte slots in an account? And a single alt with 1 million isk in a trade hub is enough to generate 2-3 billion isk per month with very little effort. More than enough to keep a pirate ongoing.


The Only problem in high sec ganking are destroyers. They are too cheap for their firepower. Make the fact that concord will kill you irrelevant.
I like to think the reason that the catalyst/thrasher still exists is because of the balance it brings to people who would otherwise never get any real excitement. I understand that it's all just speculation and that my opinion is very biased but I've thought about it and what would highsec be like if there was no danger? I think access to the skills and ships is made so readily available to players because somewhere there is a report on a CCP employee's desk that shows if a person were to PVE for so long uncontested, they just leave eve. I have though, always wondered what the actual statistics are.

On another note , i'd say my entire corporation and maybe 85% of the alliance all gank just to enforce the code. Monetary earnings I don't think drive us and if the cost of ships were to go up not only would it not affect us I think it would harm the wrong people. 100% of what we make goes right back into ships/mods.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#108 - 2014-07-22 11:59:09 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Then how do the pirates make isk? Or do you just want to run around in your officer fit ravens without any worry and making stacks of isk safely



You know that there are other 2 characte slots in an account? And a single alt with 1 million isk in a trade hub is enough to generate 2-3 billion isk per month with very little effort. More than enough to keep a pirate ongoing.


The Only problem in high sec ganking are destroyers. THey are too cheap for their firepower. Make the fact that concord will kill you irrelevant.


destroyers are so cheap to alloy lower sp players to have a decent dps ship to compete against bigger players. if the 2 slots is the case and you can make 2-3billion a month from 1 million isk then why isnt everyone trading and why is this guy running around in an orca when he could just sit in station and make stacks of isk, sorry im not one for sitting docked adjusting buy orders every 10mins to keep up with all the competition and id also love to hear how you make those numbers from a million isk as i have a trading alt and it aint happening,

i like shooting people and if i can make isk from shooting people then im happy to keep shooting people, pirates are called pirates for a reason, they pirate stuff, steal things, kill people, hijack ships sitting docked trading isnt being a pirate

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2014-07-22 12:20:45 UTC
Op, firstly you make claims to have alts everywhere. Might I suggest a post from an admitted sock puppet loses much of it's credibility.

Next, the complaint sited that it is too easy to gank, despite having the power of gankers cut time and again while the (potential) survivability of gank targets across the board makes a call for further reduction to nonconsented PvP quite ludicrous.

As stated, anyone at -5 already can be disrupted in their actions by anyone who has a little situational awareness and bravery to do so.

As stated, even a rudimentary tank vastly improves gank survival and avoidance. This quickly pushes the cost to value ratio (isk tank) out of reach for for profit ganks.

So you seem to be yelling at the rain for being allowed to make horrid choices. Complaining that you were given the tools and not forced to use them so someone else should be (further) penalized to compensate for that.

Pardon my ironic reply suggesting that if you are going to make hisec into a fish hatchery with near perfect safety, keeping fisherman out of the fish hatchery necessitates stocking the streams somehow.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#110 - 2014-07-22 13:24:53 UTC
If you dont like the fact that gankers can purchase tags, there is a simple solution:


Buy all the tags. Shocked

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#111 - 2014-07-22 13:29:41 UTC
13 nonames, for your continued heresy against HTFU and refusal to recant same, two additional innocents have been slain and advised YOU were the cause.

When your heresies stop, the carebear beheadings will stop.


Regarding the loss of your Caracal (and Pod)
From: Tuler Furzderf
To: , [readacted per pansification rule #3409323092302]
Dearest [redacted],

I hope you're enjoying your time in EVE. Initially, my reason for rendering your ship and pod to dust was unclear. I'm taking time now to inform you of the overarching political motivations for your misfortune. For years, pilots like myself have battled against carebears who wield dev petitions like a serrated knife; cutting away the sinews that allow EVE to remain unique. I'm speaking of glorious player-created content. It is the very essence of EVE. To damage it is to rip and tear at its heart; its very soul.

I cannot allow it.

Most specifically, 13 nonames, has set the EVE forums ringing with calls for more nerfs to player created content. They are anathema, and must be brought low before the altar of HTFU. To punish them that we must flog innocents such as yourself with whips of Void S.

Because their actions led to your loss, contact 13 nonames for compensation.

Any queries regarding may be directed to myself or Feyd Rautha Harkonnen.

Most sincerely,

Tuler Furzderf

"And lo, witness as I have spread joy to yet another in need of salvation."


Re: the recent loss of your Hurricane Fleet Issue
From: Geyene
Sent: 2014.07.22 04:19
To: [redacted per pansification policy #42309320320],

Hello [redacted],

I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing today in re: Kill: [redacted] (Hurricane Fleet Issue) in Eglennaert . Rest assured, the rapid and involuntary deconstruction of your Fleet Cane was in no way personal - I happen to love Hurricanes, as I think they look like christmas trees with guns on them, which is pretty sweet. Your ship was destroyed as part of our Kill It Forward program, where inane calls for hisec nerfification and other assorted violations of HTFU on the eve-o forums are met with a pledge to blow up a ship in hisec. And that ship was your ship!

Right now, you may be saying 'Hey, I didn't call for hisec nerfs, why blow up my ship?' The fact is, you were caught in the crossfire of a battle for the very soul of the game we all love. You can thank 13 nonames , as it was his eve-o forum boobery which inspired the return of your Fleet Cane to its constituent particles.

Questions? Comments? Please contact myself or Feyd Rautha Harkonnen , our fearless leader.

Smooches,

Geyene

P.S. If it looks like what we do is super fun, that's because it is. If you're interested, hit us up.

Would you like to know more?
Akashi Suenobu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-07-22 14:59:51 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
Haaranovor tenn wrote:
People with very low sec status are shot on sight by CONCORD, and I think there's also a point where players can shoot them at will too.


you rly are stupid they are not they sat on my grid and killed me well concord did nothing for a full 1 min and the fact they can glitch concord y sacking 1 ship to bring them on grid then do the attack so the second group wont show as fast as bs


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Those are for you. Clearly your "." button is broken on your keyboard. Maybe you could copy and paste those I'm donating to you and make your posts more readable.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#113 - 2014-07-22 15:06:26 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street as well as a faster response time for concord and a new sytem put in place that makes it so the concord on your grid will aggress new and old criminals not just faction police


Features and Ideas discussion is that way ->>>

Also, the period and comma are your friends. Don't fear them. Embrace them.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#114 - 2014-07-22 18:22:45 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
13 nonames, for your continued heresy against HTFU and refusal to recant same, two additional innocents have been slain and advised YOU were the cause.

When your heresies stop, the carebear beheadings will stop.


Regarding the loss of your Caracal (and Pod)
From: Tuler Furzderf
To: , [readacted per pansification rule #3409323092302]
Dearest [redacted],

I hope you're enjoying your time in EVE. Initially, my reason for rendering your ship and pod to dust was unclear. I'm taking time now to inform you of the overarching political motivations for your misfortune. For years, pilots like myself have battled against carebears who wield dev petitions like a serrated knife; cutting away the sinews that allow EVE to remain unique. I'm speaking of glorious player-created content. It is the very essence of EVE. To damage it is to rip and tear at its heart; its very soul.

I cannot allow it.

Most specifically, 13 nonames, has set the EVE forums ringing with calls for more nerfs to player created content. They are anathema, and must be brought low before the altar of HTFU. To punish them that we must flog innocents such as yourself with whips of Void S.

Because their actions led to your loss, contact 13 nonames for compensation.

Any queries regarding may be directed to myself or Feyd Rautha Harkonnen.

Most sincerely,

Tuler Furzderf

"And lo, witness as I have spread joy to yet another in need of salvation."


Re: the recent loss of your Hurricane Fleet Issue
From: Geyene
Sent: 2014.07.22 04:19
To: [redacted per pansification policy #42309320320],

Hello [redacted],

I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing today in re: Kill: [redacted] (Hurricane Fleet Issue) in Eglennaert . Rest assured, the rapid and involuntary deconstruction of your Fleet Cane was in no way personal - I happen to love Hurricanes, as I think they look like christmas trees with guns on them, which is pretty sweet. Your ship was destroyed as part of our Kill It Forward program, where inane calls for hisec nerfification and other assorted violations of HTFU on the eve-o forums are met with a pledge to blow up a ship in hisec. And that ship was your ship!

Right now, you may be saying 'Hey, I didn't call for hisec nerfs, why blow up my ship?' The fact is, you were caught in the crossfire of a battle for the very soul of the game we all love. You can thank 13 nonames , as it was his eve-o forum boobery which inspired the return of your Fleet Cane to its constituent particles.

Questions? Comments? Please contact myself or Feyd Rautha Harkonnen , our fearless leader.

Smooches,

Geyene

P.S. If it looks like what we do is super fun, that's because it is. If you're interested, hit us up.


this is just magical, simply magically, today you solely win the internet \o/ where do we sign up for this program?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#115 - 2014-07-22 18:30:13 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

...
this is just magical, simply magically, today you solely win the internet \o/ where do we sign up for this program?

While always welcome, membership is not required to Kill-It-Forward.

Anyone from any corp/alliance delivering a Kill-It-Forward email to a victim (and cc'ing myself) will also be absolved of their crime of murder and awarded...

THE ORDER OF THE GLOWING DILDO

F

Would you like to know more?
flakeys
Doomheim
#116 - 2014-07-22 19:03:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Andski wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
Then once he's done for the week, billions of ISK in loot up, he goes to Jan and repairs his sec ready for the next week with tags to no cost to himself...


i didn't know tags were free


I doubt the ''good people of eve'' actually know how much it costs to go from -9.9 to a -0 sec stat .


See my sig. They aren't "good" just because they choose to remain ignorant and refuse to defend themselves.

But yeah, that last five points is a *****. Haven't had to do it in a few months on any of my characters, but the last time I did it I got them for 10% less than Jita price and it was half of a plex all told.



Notice the '' '' when i say good Blink .

Think i repaired my sec about months ago when i left nullsec to go to lowsec as i would also be going into high every now and then.Think it costed me close to 1 B then.

And after 3 months in FW i decided to go pirate again so didn't ''enjoy'' that positive sec stat for a long period Lol.But that said i do think the price is not too high if you take into account that you don't have to do the godawfull sec grinding any more .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys
Doomheim
#117 - 2014-07-22 19:07:44 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I agree with a number of posts here. That sec status should not be purchasable.



It's a game where we all play our own little mini game in , allways been that way and i LOVE EvE for that reason.That is the beauty of eve however it immediatly also is the biggest problem CCP has with it.You just have to keep an eye on every type of gamestyle being possbile without effecting the other play style too much.

I think i have played out allmost every playstyle there is in eve except for ganking/incursions/wormholes and i can not remember complaining at any time that ''my playstyle'' needed some help in regards to be safer from another playstyle.I allways try to keep a reasonable look on the ways others play too and as such usually more hang towards ''nerfing'' my own playstyle then that of others.


The question is though , when is one playstyle becoming too much favoured towards the other that it needs CCP to come in between and in that regard i am happy to not work at the CCP office ....


its a shame they never do that for industrialist


Yup they never changed the tank of mining ships BIG TIME nor did they recently change the ability to strengthen your tank for freighters.

No sir not at all .

Roll

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys
Doomheim
#118 - 2014-07-22 19:11:45 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
flakeys wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street as well as a faster response time for concord and a new sytem put in place that makes it so the concord on your grid will aggress new and old criminals not just faction police



Why do people ask for such things ONLY when they have lost a ship due to this and not before?You're playing since 2011 yet this is the first time you ask for this and it won't be a coincidence that the day you made this thread you lost an orca in empire now is it?

You knew about this tactic before yet had no problems with it untill you yourself fell victim to it.That is what i call being a hypo .


i have asked for this long b4 that loss



Point me to that post then , i assume you DO know that every post you make on the forums is still viewable and as i am OBVIOUSLY a dumb **** who can't read as i haven't found any post of you asking for a such a thing since you started posting in 2011 prove me wrong not by stating i am but by linking the post itself.



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#119 - 2014-07-22 19:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: admiral root
flakeys wrote:
Yup they never changed the tank of mining ships BIG TIME nor did they recently change the ability to strengthen your tank for freighters.


Actually, the freighter changes were orchestrated by the ganker cartels. The proof is in any thread in the past however many years where fittable freighters was suggested and the gankers were the ones warning that it would result in silly people fitting for max cargo, only to be surprised when they went boom. Our posts were actually coded messages to CCP telling them to make it happen. Unfortunately, the decoder rings kept getting lost in the mail until James 315 took one to fanfest and handed it to Hilmar personally.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#120 - 2014-07-22 19:29:04 UTC
admiral root wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Yup they never changed the tank of mining ships BIG TIME nor did they recently change the ability to strengthen your tank for freighters.


Actually, the freighter changes were orchestrated by the ganker cartels. The proof is in any thread in the past however many years where fittable freighters was suggested and the gankers were the ones warning that it would result in silly people fitting for max cargo, only to be surprised when they went boom. Our posts were actually coded messages to CCP telling them to make it happen. Unfortunately, the decoder rings kept getting lost in the mail until James 315 took one to fanfest and handed it to Hilmar personally.
The same techniques were also used in the push for being able to close and restart a corp to drop a wardec.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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