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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#41 - 2014-07-20 16:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Saar Ynier wrote:
This is the person in question I have sat and watched as well as this person. Please note in game their security status. And look at what they gank.

One gank is all that pays for their tags...

And I quite agree, the real gankers are -10 security status. People like CODE. those guys I actually respect as gankers due to their ability to work with -10 sec status and against players and faction police... Not to mention they gank because its fun, not for the ISK efficiency...
I'll bite...

Libra Edier may well be a suicide ganker judging by her deaths, but NeoBob is in Goonwaffe. Hence it's fairly reasonable to assume that he rats in nullsec for his sec status. If you take a closer look at his killboard you'll also see that when he dies, it's generally not to Concord but other players, ergo he's not a suicide ganker.

In fact in the first 2 pages of his KB only one of his deaths involves Concord, so most of his kills are probably due to wardecs or manipulation of aggro mechanics.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Saar Ynier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-07-20 16:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Saar Ynier
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
This is the person in question I have sat and watched as well as this person. Please note in game their security status. And look at what they gank.

One gank is all that pays for their tags...

And I quite agree, the real gankers are -10 security status. People like CODE. those guys I actually respect as gankers due to their ability to work with -10 sec status and against players and faction police... Not to mention they gank because its fun, not for the ISK efficiency...
NeoBob is in Goonwaffe, hence it's fairly reasonable to assume that he rats in nullsec for his sec status. If you take a closer look at his killboard you'll also see that when he dies, it's generally not to Concord, ergo he's not a suicide ganker.

In fact in the first 2 pages of his KB only one of his deaths involves Concord, so most of his kills are probably due to wardecs or manipulation of aggro mechanics.


Your assumptions are exactly that, assumptions. I have sat and watched this guy operate. He usually dies before Concord land on grid, hence the reason most of the losses only have Gate Guns on them. I know from sitting there and watching that he suicide ganks. Not due to what you are suggesting. Warps Vexor to gate. Gardes come out. Tayra or whatever jumps through. Neobob engages going criminal in the process.

Edit: Thats not meant to sound as dickish as it might come across, however I am just stating that I have seen this first hand that he has gone criminal with every single Vexor he has sat on the gate with.

Go to Josometo, its a hotpool for this type of stuff at the minute and will remain so until people learn not to carry large amounts in a t1 hauler.

I'm not saying theres an issue with ganking persay, what I am saying is its far too easy for the people who do this type of ganking (vexor on a gate with gardes for isk efficiency) to repair their sec status and not really have a punishment.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#43 - 2014-07-20 16:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Saar Ynier wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
This is the person in question I have sat and watched as well as this person. Please note in game their security status. And look at what they gank.

One gank is all that pays for their tags...

And I quite agree, the real gankers are -10 security status. People like CODE. those guys I actually respect as gankers due to their ability to work with -10 sec status and against players and faction police... Not to mention they gank because its fun, not for the ISK efficiency...
NeoBob is in Goonwaffe, hence it's fairly reasonable to assume that he rats in nullsec for his sec status. If you take a closer look at his killboard you'll also see that when he dies, it's generally not to Concord, ergo he's not a suicide ganker.

In fact in the first 2 pages of his KB only one of his deaths involves Concord, so most of his kills are probably due to wardecs or manipulation of aggro mechanics.


Your assumptions are exactly that, assumptions. I have sat and watched this guy operate. He usually dies before Concord land on grid, hence the reason most of the losses only have Gate Guns on them. I know from sitting there and watching that he suicide ganks. Not due to what you are suggesting. Warps Vexor to gate. Gardes come out. Tayra or whatever jumps through. Neobob engages going criminal in the process.
As are yours, I'm man enough to admit it though P

It's still much more likely that NeoBob rats for his sec status in null than buying tags, tags are an unnecessary expense when you have access to nullsec rats.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Saar Ynier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-07-20 16:26:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
This is the person in question I have sat and watched as well as this person. Please note in game their security status. And look at what they gank.

One gank is all that pays for their tags...

And I quite agree, the real gankers are -10 security status. People like CODE. those guys I actually respect as gankers due to their ability to work with -10 sec status and against players and faction police... Not to mention they gank because its fun, not for the ISK efficiency...
NeoBob is in Goonwaffe, hence it's fairly reasonable to assume that he rats in nullsec for his sec status. If you take a closer look at his killboard you'll also see that when he dies, it's generally not to Concord, ergo he's not a suicide ganker.

In fact in the first 2 pages of his KB only one of his deaths involves Concord, so most of his kills are probably due to wardecs or manipulation of aggro mechanics.


Your assumptions are exactly that, assumptions. I have sat and watched this guy operate. He usually dies before Concord land on grid, hence the reason most of the losses only have Gate Guns on them. I know from sitting there and watching that he suicide ganks. Not due to what you are suggesting. Warps Vexor to gate. Gardes come out. Tayra or whatever jumps through. Neobob engages going criminal in the process.
As are yours P

It's still much more likely that NeoBob rats for his sec status in null than buying tags, tags are an unnecessary expense when you have access to nullsec rats.


See edit to my post, sorry was editing before you posted.

And no, mine arent assumptions when I have witnessed it first hand. You dont go from -3 back upto nothing in one hour without using tags.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#45 - 2014-07-20 16:31:27 UTC
Saar Ynier wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Giuseppe R Raimondo wrote:
a way to reduce highsec ganking is to remove the option to turn in tags and buy your security status up. Everyone knew it was a stupied idea when introduced, i am supriced its still a thing


I kind of have to agree here.

I have taken to sitting sometimes in Josameto and watching the same person in a Vexor over and over gank haulers, then the neutral alt warps to the wreck, scoops it and warps off.

Then once he's done for the week, billions of ISK in loot up, he goes to Jan and repairs his sec ready for the next week with tags to no cost to himself...



Don't get me wrong, ganking is part of this game, but since these tags were introduced there's been far more smaller entities doing it.

I am actually considering creating an alt myself specifically for training drones and a Vexor and doing it myself. There's a lot of ISK to be had from it and no risk to myself.


Because maybe people want to play a pvp game instead of ratting and pve for weeks on end, whats the point paying a subscription for a mmo if your just going to play against npc's

Just because someone plays against NPCs doesnt mean they don't play or interact with others... Besides, how is shooting haulers any better than playing against NPCs most of them are untanked, APing idiots that have about as much to offer as the NPCs.

Andski wrote:
[quote=Saar Ynier]Then once he's done for the week, billions of ISK in loot up, he goes to Jan and repairs his sec ready for the next week with tags to no cost to himself...


Play against npcs all you want but dont force others to do the same, this is a sandbox and people want to kill players whether it be to make a living or or just for lols, i for one refuse to do any pve because i find it pointless and a waste of my money, carebears already have protection of highsec and if they choose to take a shortcut via a lowsec ganking system then they should not moan when they are turned into game content

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Saar Ynier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-07-20 16:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Saar Ynier
Lan Wang wrote:
Play against npcs all you want but dont force others to do the same, this is a sandbox and people want to kill players whether it be to make a living or or just for lols, i for one refuse to do any pve because i find it pointless and a waste of my money, carebears already have protection of highsec and if they choose to take a shortcut via a lowsec ganking system then they should not moan when they are turned into game content


Did I in any way tell someone how to play the game? No I did not. Perhaps if you read my posts rather that cherry pick them, you would see this.

I also state that I agree that ganking is as much a part of time game and also that I respect the gankers that play at -10 in hisec (in my opinion the proper gankers).

What I dont like, is the fact its too easy for people who just want quick ISK to gank several haulers, then run to grab tags and repair their sec status immidietly so they have no consequence (other than of course kill rights, but how many haulers use them)...

Edit: This was just a friendly debate and I was putting across the otherside of the argument, but some people cant read and decide to only reply to what they think I'm saying not to what I am actually saying. I'm out.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#47 - 2014-07-20 17:03:30 UTC
Saar Ynier wrote:
I have taken to sitting sometimes in Josameto and watching the same person in a Vexor over and over gank haulers, then the neutral alt warps to the wreck, scoops it and warps off.

Then once he's done for the week, billions of ISK in loot up, he goes to Jan and repairs his sec ready for the next week with tags to no cost to himself...

Don't get me wrong, ganking is part of this game, but since these tags were introduced there's been far more smaller entities doing it.


Josameto - last 24 hours

Jumps: 26,115
Ship kills: 238
Chance of asploding: 0.91% (includes wardecs, awoxing, ganking, duels, etc)

We're talking about 2 jumps from Jita at the weekend - these alleged smaller entities aren't very good at ganking.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Terminator 2
Omega Boost
#48 - 2014-07-20 17:14:36 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
Haaranovor tenn wrote:
People with very low sec status are shot on sight by CONCORD, and I think there's also a point where players can shoot them at will too.


you rly are stupid they are not they sat on my grid and killed me well concord did nothing for a full 1 min and the fact they can glitch concord y sacking 1 ship to bring them on grid then do the attack so the second group wont show as fast as bs



Riiight...just mention the stupidity...WHO again flew an Orca fitted for max cargo through Uedama, a 0.5 security system known for the majority of ganks and just needed 9 laughable gankers to bring him down?

Was that you? I thought you were the bright one...
Black Pedro
Mine.
#49 - 2014-07-20 17:16:35 UTC
Saar Ynier wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Play against npcs all you want but dont force others to do the same, this is a sandbox and people want to kill players whether it be to make a living or or just for lols, i for one refuse to do any pve because i find it pointless and a waste of my money, carebears already have protection of highsec and if they choose to take a shortcut via a lowsec ganking system then they should not moan when they are turned into game content


Did I in any way tell someone how to play the game? No I did not. Perhaps if you read my posts rather that cherry pick them, you would see this.

I also state that I agree that ganking is as much a part of time game and also that I respect the gankers that play at -10 in hisec (in my opinion the proper gankers).

What I dont like, is the fact its too easy for people who just want quick ISK to gank several haulers, then run to grab tags and repair their sec status immidietly so they have no consequence (other than of course kill rights, but how many haulers use them)...

Edit: This was just a friendly debate and I was putting across the otherside of the argument, but some people cant read and decide to only reply to what they think I'm saying not to what I am actually saying. I'm out.


But isn't this kind of the point of the game? Without the check of the risk of a gank, haulers would just fit for max cargo and carry billions of ISK worth with impunity rendering a large part of the game (the logistics of the transport of goods) meaningless. Fitting your industrial to be below the profitability threshold for a ganker is trivial - it's just that many haulers are too greedy or clueless to bother. If someone wants to enforce this reality of the game and profit a little from it, what is wrong with that? Tags really don't change that much anyway, as like PLEX, they just serve as a way for players to trade time for ISK with each other.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#50 - 2014-07-20 17:17:15 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
It's still much more likely that NeoBob rats for his sec status in null than buying tags, tags are an unnecessary expense when you have access to nullsec rats.


It's really easy to get your sec status if you rat in nullsec. In fact you have so much that you don't know what to do with it untill... you go from 5.0 to -2.2 in three pods flat.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2014-07-20 17:35:48 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:

They're not, but only one gank pays for them tags. One gank that nullifies the sec status loss of aver 20 ganks...


And please both of you note, I said I didnt have an issue with ganking and considering it myself, but it is far too easy to repair the sec status.


Really? I did not know 1 gank pays 400mil.

Also, majority gankers are -10. They are little if at all concerned about their sec status.


there is almost no restrictions on -10 pilots iv watched them drive bc/bs around hi sec like its an evening drive


Warp Disrupt them and watch them die to faction police.
Saar Ynier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-07-20 17:44:22 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Saar Ynier wrote:
I have taken to sitting sometimes in Josameto and watching the same person in a Vexor over and over gank haulers, then the neutral alt warps to the wreck, scoops it and warps off.

Then once he's done for the week, billions of ISK in loot up, he goes to Jan and repairs his sec ready for the next week with tags to no cost to himself...

Don't get me wrong, ganking is part of this game, but since these tags were introduced there's been far more smaller entities doing it.


Josameto - last 24 hours

Jumps: 26,115
Ship kills: 238
Chance of asploding: 0.91% (includes wardecs, awoxing, ganking, duels, etc)

We're talking about 2 jumps from Jita at the weekend - these alleged smaller entities aren't very good at ganking.

Okay, I'll bite before I unsub from this thread...
If youre going to spout numbers at me, lets get all the facts.

Jumps: How many of them were T1 haulers carrying enough to be ganked.
Kills: How many of them where T1 haulers.
In the whole of New Eden: How many ganks have happened in the past 24 hours by people that aren't -5 and below because they are the people I am specifically talking about...

Anywho, time for work for me...
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-07-20 17:49:58 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec

They're already nice and flashy red for anyone to shoot at, what's the problem again ?
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#54 - 2014-07-20 18:05:17 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
how about we look at it this way what do you do with someone who has killed someone or damaged/destroyed there property they normally go to this thing called jail aka low sec they would not be let into regular society but in this game someone who commits a crime is treated with nothing more then a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again

Except that they have their ship blown up.

I really don't know what is up with this delusional self-entitlement that people have when playing this game... Did you not hear the stories or read blogs about what goes on here? You can't just jump on in and cry for changes that go against what has made this game so unique.

HTFU
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#55 - 2014-07-20 18:12:30 UTC
S'Way wrote:
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec

They're already nice and flashy red for anyone to shoot at, what's the problem again ?

He's too chicken **** to shoot them himself so he wants CONCORD to do it for him.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2014-07-20 18:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Saar Ynier wrote:
Jumps: How many of them were T1 haulers carrying enough to be ganked.
No way to tell, that data isn't tracked publicly
Quote:
Kills: How many of them where T1 haulers.
2 in the last 24 hours according to zkill, both of which were Red Federation haulers killed by Blue Republic. The day before it was 3, and the day before that 4.
Quote:
In the whole of New Eden: How many ganks have happened in the past 24 hours by people that aren't -5 and below because they are the people I am specifically talking about...
Impossible to tell, that data isn't tracked publicly

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2014-07-20 18:46:20 UTC
13 nonames wrote:
I would like to see a harder punishment set out for hi sec gankers such as a sec limiter put in place to make it so anyone with a -6 sec may no longer get into hi sec no more criminal driving around hi security space seeing as a so call advanced society would not have wanted criminal walking the street as well as a faster response time for concord and a new sytem put in place that makes it so the concord on your grid will aggress new and old criminals not just faction police



Came from WoW, did we?

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Netan MalDoran
Cathedral.
Shadow Cartel
#58 - 2014-07-20 20:14:25 UTC
Soooo, you just want more tempoary alts out there to gank people with 3 weeks of training for a catty.

Yeah, and it will make pod logistics a PITA for some of us Pirate

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#59 - 2014-07-20 22:23:26 UTC
What's truly funny is CCP created security status tags as a means to specifically allow The Bad People to get back into empire space without having to grind their sec status up by ratting/mission running.

And now people are whining about the sec status tags........

Lol

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#60 - 2014-07-20 23:49:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No way to tell, that data isn't tracked publicly


IB4 Dinsdale uses this to prove it's a conspiracy and Gevlon Goofus produces a graph to show my post was wrong. :)

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff