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Dev blog: Teams and Revamp of Industry in EVE Online

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Babbet Bunny
#21 - 2014-07-08 16:49:05 UTC
Mackenzie Nolen wrote:
Robert Almart wrote:
Does this mean you are going to tax me for researching at a POS as well as making me fuel the POS? What is the point of a high sec POS if there is no benefit to having a POS.


Installation cost is not tax. POS manufacturing is free from the additional 10% NPC tax that is added to installation costs. It also gets a 2% material benefit with the assembly arrays.


And the NPC tax can be negated with standings.

Still find the addition of a fourth market and teams in general an unnecessary complication.

The industry playing field will be dynamic enough with all the other changes.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-07-08 17:08:44 UTC
And still a reduction in materials and time is indicated with a positive value. Way to go guys. Makes no sense at all Roll

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Dread Nanana
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-07-08 17:09:56 UTC
Having teams per system instead of private makes absolutely no sense, unless you live in conquerable null sec in which case it would be equal to private.

That's all.
Flay Nardieu
#24 - 2014-07-08 17:11:25 UTC
Only cost a POS operator should pay is fuel costs, and Team fee if they chose to use them. No mention of reversing the Remote from Corp Office removal so it probably is gone.

Tragic commitment to the "Spew Container" of industry mantra, although I doubt certain things will be changed back as quickly as removing the spew container mechanic... Sad
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#25 - 2014-07-08 17:27:34 UTC
Dread Nanana wrote:
Having teams per system instead of private makes absolutely no sense, unless you live in conquerable null sec in which case it would be equal to private.

That's all.



Why?

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Woo Mi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-07-08 17:50:28 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#27 - 2014-07-08 17:53:09 UTC
Woo Mi wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.



It's not a problem being solved. It's another knob to twiddle in industry.

The cost mechanic acts to push people apart.

The teams act to pull them together (especially at corporation levels)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#28 - 2014-07-08 17:59:42 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Woo Mi wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.



It's not a problem being solved. It's another knob to twiddle in industry.

The cost mechanic acts to push people apart.

The teams act to pull them together (especially at corporation levels)


Can you answer if more than one team work in a single system im super confusedWhat?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2014-07-08 18:01:02 UTC
24 hours is not enough for the Jobs-started filter. There's at least an additional "Started in the last week" filter necessary to get a better picture if it's really feasible to move to a system or not at all.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2014-07-08 18:03:41 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Woo Mi wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.



It's not a problem being solved. It's another knob to twiddle in industry.

The cost mechanic acts to push people apart.

The teams act to pull them together (especially at corporation levels)


I don't see benefits in teams, especially not in regions with elevated activity.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Bessa Miros
#31 - 2014-07-08 18:05:44 UTC
The best specialists will go to the CFC/N3PL blocks for building capitals and modules for their fleets while their member alliances (fidelas constas, nulli, etc) pull in the 2nd best... all paid by massive amounts of rent ISK. Rents go up too because now they offer teams as incentives - and the cold war cycle continues.

Meanwhile Faction war areas, rich industrialists, and dedicated shipyards either move get the left-leftovers. Low Sec pirates might use teams as a draw for easy prey.

In all cases (except maybe in Providence - save us Chribba!) the teams look like a gift to ISK heavy populations. Loyal casual players that work solo (for years now) are left out pretty much.

Is there a counter view to this?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#32 - 2014-07-08 18:09:08 UTC
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Woo Mi wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.



It's not a problem being solved. It's another knob to twiddle in industry.

The cost mechanic acts to push people apart.

The teams act to pull them together (especially at corporation levels)


Can you answer if more than one team work in a single system im super confusedWhat?



It, technically, is possible for all teams to be in a single system. (The best kind of possible)

It would be stupid for people to bid in that way. So much isk to do it.

You can only use one team per job. Ideally one with both a broad and narrow speciality (which stack)

Just so people have an idea: Over 28 days, Eve sees around 2.5 billion minutes of industry. That's the number that's the basis for the multiplier.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Bessa Miros
#33 - 2014-07-08 18:10:55 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Woo Mi wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Teams can work on all jobs in a system. And the bids are pooled at a system level. So folks in, say, highsec, get the benefit of shared bidding.


Can somebody point me to a post explaining what problem was solved by introducing teams and the bidding mechanic?
Was there not enough competition?
I can't imagine there were complaints that industrial entrepeneurs were staying too long in the same location.



It's not a problem being solved. It's another knob to twiddle in industry.

The cost mechanic acts to push people apart.

The teams act to pull them together (especially at corporation levels)


This is what I dont understand - so 2 pressures (one to move away from others, the other to move together). This is a hopeless balance that constantly shifts. Who wants to risk assets chasing this balance? There must be come scenario I'm not seeing

Sorry to be negative about this.

I suggest you use teams to reward NRDS areas of the game (and NPC nullsec too). NBSI areas of nullsec are not risky areas. Then it makes sense - risk v reward.
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#34 - 2014-07-08 18:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
Bessa Miros wrote:
The best specialists will go to the CFC/N3PL blocks for building capitals and modules for their fleets while their member alliances (fidelas constas, nulli, etc) pull in the 2nd best... all paid by massive amounts of rent ISK. Rents go up too because now they offer teams as incentives - and the cold war cycle continues.

Meanwhile Faction war areas, rich industrialists, and dedicated shipyards either move get the left-leftovers. Low Sec pirates might use teams as a draw for easy prey.

In all cases (except maybe in Providence - save us Chribba!) the teams look like a gift to ISK heavy populations. Loyal casual players that work solo (for years now) are left out pretty much.

Is there a counter view to this?


Not every activity in EVE should be just as efficient solo as it is in groups?

In addition, many items currently profitable to build are not confined to the category of capital ships and parts, etc. There are also a number of well organized, wealthy high sec groups who will be able to pour a lot of isk into teams that benefit their own industrialists.

Plus, if less people do industry as a result of the changes, it only gets more profitable for those who do. On the other hand, if more people do industry, then ways of specializing, such as teams, becomes more beneficial. Seems win/win

There are a lot of problems with null/sov, but this doesn't seem like one of them...
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#35 - 2014-07-08 18:17:15 UTC
Let the speculation commence.... errr keep going.

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2014-07-08 18:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Steve Ronuken wrote:

It would be stupid for people to bid in that way. So much isk to do it.


ISK is not a factor to deter human ... ingenuity.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#37 - 2014-07-08 18:19:46 UTC
Can teams be hired to wormhole systems? Is the industrial intel displayed for kspace systems on the map available anywhere for wormhole systems? Can I see what teams are available/were hired to wormholes that I do not have a structure in?
BlackTalon
BlackTalon Mining Corp
#38 - 2014-07-08 18:37:06 UTC
what an silly idea these teams are this industry update don't look good
Bessa Miros
#39 - 2014-07-08 18:38:36 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Bessa Miros wrote:
The best specialists will go to the CFC/N3PL blocks for building capitals and modules for their fleets while their member alliances (fidelas constas, nulli, etc) pull in the 2nd best... all paid by massive amounts of rent ISK. Rents go up too because now they offer teams as incentives - and the cold war cycle continues.

Meanwhile Faction war areas, rich industrialists, and dedicated shipyards either move get the left-leftovers. Low Sec pirates might use teams as a draw for easy prey.

In all cases (except maybe in Providence - save us Chribba!) the teams look like a gift to ISK heavy populations. Loyal casual players that work solo (for years now) are left out pretty much.

Is there a counter view to this?


Not every activity in EVE should be just as efficient solo as it is in groups?

In addition, many items currently profitable to build are not confined to the category of capital ships and parts, etc. There are also a number of well organized, wealthy high sec groups who will be able to pour a lot of isk into teams that benefit their own industrialists.

Plus, if less people do industry as a result of the changes, it only gets more profitable for those who do. On the other hand, if more people do industry, then ways of specializing, such as teams, becomes more beneficial. Seems win/win

There are a lot of problems with null/sov, but this doesn't seem like one of them...

Thanks for the counter.

Based on what Steve Ronuken wrote above - I see now what CCP might be trying to do.

Give reigns of the economy to nullsec. Allow them to manipulate prices by hiring in all teams that have to do with so and so. section of markets.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-07-08 19:01:48 UTC
Is "broken-er" a word ?

I'm reminded of an old "Dilbert" cartoon where an extension cord is stuck into an old manual, mechanical stapler and the job is called "Good".

Roll

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