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Procurers too OP

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Staten Island
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#1 - 2014-07-02 20:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Just would like to first note that I originally posted this in General Discussion. The ISD closed that thread stating that it belonged in C&P because of the KM. I'm sorry and I did not know that. I also do not understand why the ISD considered it to be a rant. I merely stated that the procurer has become too powerful due to the last two balance passes that CCP has given it and made constructive suggestions to correct it. I used this KM to illustrate the problem posed by weaponized procurers.

As you can see, procurers have become way too powerful and the current situation is not balanced at all. If you believe as I do, that procurers need a nerf to bring them back into mining barge pecking order, please voice your support. Also if you could voice any suggestions that you might have as to how fix the procurer it would be appreciated. My own suggestion of reducing the bandwidth so that only one medium drone could be flown does not seem to be as practicable as I first thought.
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#2 - 2014-07-02 20:48:26 UTC
You had to have suspect yourself, or he did a in corp AWOX, or a corp war as there is no mathmatical way this was done as a criminal gank.

If you suspect yourself then it is your fault as even a frigate could beat an orca if flown right.

If it was in corp AWOX then it is your CEO fault for not checking his killboards.

If it was war then it is your own fault for flying an orca in space during a war.


All ways point to not OP procurer but user fault.

The real issue is he probably tricked you and you want to blame the ship and not the fact you got tricked.
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#3 - 2014-07-02 20:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimo Khan
If he was suspect and you fired on him then it is also your fault for doing this in an Orca.
Staten Island
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#4 - 2014-07-02 20:52:38 UTC
Kimo Khan wrote:
You had to have suspect yourself, or he did a in corp AWOX, or a corp war as there is no mathmatical way this was done as a criminal gank.

If you suspect yourself then it is your fault as even a frigate could beat an orca if flown right.

If it was in corp AWOX then it is your CEO fault for not checking his killboards.

If it was war then it is your own fault for flying an orca in space during a war.


All ways point to not OP procurer but user fault.

The real issue is he probably tricked you and you want to blame the ship and not the fact you got tricked.


I would just like to say that I was not the orca pilot. It is just my firm belief that procurers are intended by lore and design to be peaceful tools of industry, not weaponized barges of death. To borrow another players analogy, Procurers are like the dolphins of the ice belts, there is no way one of them should be able to kill a killer whale, i.e. an orca. Its a full on immersion break.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#5 - 2014-07-02 20:58:13 UTC
Please.

It is common knowledge that Procurors and Skiffs are simply combat ships that happen to have the ability to use a strip miner.

I, for one, think they need another non-turret high slot so I can fit a neut along with the mining laser......

Strictly for self-defense purposes, of course.

Bear

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-02 21:12:01 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Please.

It is common knowledge that Procurors and Skiffs are simply combat ships that happen to have the ability to use a strip miner.

I, for one, think they need another non-turret high slot so I can fit a neut along with the mining laser......

Strictly for self-defense purposes, of course.

Bear

I'm still upset that skiffs are banned from the alliance tournament.

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Maichin Civire
#7 - 2014-07-02 21:29:43 UTC
Looks like wardec to me, but I'm not sure.

Also, procurers aren't OP. Resist tank won't save this Orca, even if it was attacked by lone frig. Procurer doesn't need to be fixed - it's perfect, CCP even made it more powerful (made it better to survive in?) in Kronos, you know why? Because it is purposed to be heavy tanked mining ship. To operate in dangerous area, where the pilot can wait for support. Covetors/Retrievers are for yield/ore bay, proc is for defence. Deal with it.

Quote:
I would just like to say that I was not the orca pilot. It is just my firm belief that procurers are intended by lore and design to be peaceful tools of industry, not weaponized barges of death. To borrow another players analogy, Procurers are like the dolphins of the ice belts, there is no way one of them should be able to kill a killer whale, i.e. an orca. Its a full on immersion break.


You can kill everything with everything, it's just the way EVE exists. And you can't do anything against; it would be completely worthless making one ship class invincible against other. I don't want to meet a cruiser while flying BC and don't be able to shoot even once, when he slowly kills me.
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#8 - 2014-07-02 21:32:58 UTC
Your not going to find anyone sympathetic here to the idea that we should remove combat abilties from ships. Eve is a pvp game, thats its heart and soul. If anything the proc and skiff should have more combaty stuff and less mining yield. A utilty highslot or 2 would be very nice as well.

Will gank for food
Maichin Civire
#9 - 2014-07-02 21:35:31 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
Your not going to find anyone sympathetic here to the idea that we should remove combat abilties from ships. Eve is a pvp game, thats its heart and soul. If anything the proc and skiff should have more combaty stuff and less mining yield. A utilty highslot or 2 would be very nice as well.

Or second highslot with another hardpoint for strip miner/weapon.

Yeeeeaaah.
Staten Island
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#10 - 2014-07-02 23:38:26 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
Your not going to find anyone sympathetic here to the idea that we should remove combat abilties from ships. Eve is a pvp game, thats its heart and soul. If anything the proc and skiff should have more combaty stuff and less mining yield. A utilty highslot or 2 would be very nice as well.


You are thinking about this all wrong. The orca in rl is the mightiest fish in the sea. It is the killer whale. It swims around in peace, knowing that it is the top predator and that nothing can touch it. Surely CCP named the orca spaceship after its rl counterpart because of its natural traits. Now here comes a friendly dolphin but instead of acknowledging the orca's rightful place as king of the ice belt it murders it in its face. It is totally immersion breaking. And just to prove the natural superiority of the orca here is a link that was provided by another user Orca King Fish.

By allowing the procurer to become an offensive weapon of death, CCP has upset the natural order of the ice belt.
Marsan
#11 - 2014-07-02 23:50:11 UTC
The kill mail doesn't look at that bad. The Procurer obviously fitted a scram, or bumped the Orca. Either the Orca was flown in war or with killrights/suspect flag. In that case the Procurer only had to out DPS the Orca's shield regen and wait. (Must have taken forever with the dc and bulkheads.) The Orca pilot was foolish for not having ecm drones or friends/alt nearby if they were at war, had killrights or didn't have their safety on. This assumes the Orca didn't go link dead or logoff....

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#12 - 2014-07-03 01:34:58 UTC
Staten Island wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
Your not going to find anyone sympathetic here to the idea that we should remove combat abilties from ships. Eve is a pvp game, thats its heart and soul. If anything the proc and skiff should have more combaty stuff and less mining yield. A utilty highslot or 2 would be very nice as well.


You are thinking about this all wrong. The orca in rl is the mightiest fish in the sea. It is the killer whale. It swims around in peace, knowing that it is the top predator and that nothing can touch it. Surely CCP named the orca spaceship after its rl counterpart because of its natural traits. Now here comes a friendly dolphin but instead of acknowledging the orca's rightful place as king of the ice belt it murders it in its face. It is totally immersion breaking. And just to prove the natural superiority of the orca here is a link that was provided by another user Orca King Fish.

By allowing the procurer to become an offensive weapon of death, CCP has upset the natural order of the ice belt.


lol.

Thank me later :D
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#13 - 2014-07-03 01:54:23 UTC
Tears Procured.

Mission accomplished?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2014-07-03 02:00:41 UTC
Not sure what would have been more painful, the 650m loss, or having to wait the age that it takes for a Procurer to actually kill anything.

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Pix Severus
Empty You
#15 - 2014-07-03 03:01:31 UTC
Take a look at this video. Back in the day, this guy went on a rampage killing all sorts of ships, in a Hulk, and this was long before the barge buffs.

Its not the ship, its the guy flying it.

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Thalos Elongus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-07-03 07:32:47 UTC
Please help me to understand this...

The Ship is overpowered since it was able to kill an unarmed, passive tanked orca?
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#17 - 2014-07-03 07:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Asia Leigh
One of the earlier corps I was in would use procurers as bait in low sec all the time. They are also useful as bait in high sec when you are at war. When fit properly you can get close to BS EHP out of it. Mix that with good drone skills you may even be able to take out your prey before your fleet lands on grid :D

In all seriousness though, how the hell do you lose an orca to a mining barge >.> My orca pilot gets 225k EHP... And you have a drone bay also... That barge should have been dead before you even were close to being in danger of losing the orca...

Edit:

Nevermind, just look at the kill mail...

1. No sheild extenders
2. Empty mid and high slot???
3. For mother-of-god get sheild or hull rigs on that thing ASAP
4. Combat drones of your own would have saved your life here... Just saying
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-07-03 09:37:52 UTC
I've lost a couple of Procurers to ganks so not too OP ;)

However the ships in need of a little love are the covetor and hulk they are just too damn weak. If they had a better tank at least people would try to mine in them and it would give gankers lots of easy targets. But as it stands unless you are in totally safe space ie Deep blue Nullsec noone will use them.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#19 - 2014-07-03 12:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
I've lost a couple of Procurers to ganks so not too OP ;)

However the ships in need of a little love are the covetor and hulk they are just too damn weak. If they had a better tank at least people would try to mine in them and it would give gankers lots of easy targets. But as it stands unless you are in totally safe space ie Deep blue Nullsec noone will use them.

People rarely fly the Covetor and the Hulk, not just because they're fragile(ish) but because without Orca support they're deadweight, they're fleet ships and an Orca is the ideal ship to both handle the ore and provide boosts.

For solo use any of the others will do the job, me I use a Procurer when I mine, which isn't often.

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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-07-03 13:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Staten Island wrote:


You are thinking about this all wrong. The orca in rl is the mightiest fish in the sea. It is the killer whale. It swims around in peace, knowing that it is the top predator and that nothing can touch it. Surely CCP named the orca spaceship after its rl counterpart because of its natural traits. Now here comes a friendly dolphin but instead of acknowledging the orca's rightful place as king of the ice belt it murders it in its face. It is totally immersion breaking. And just to prove the natural superiority of the orca here is a link that was provided by another user Orca King Fish.

By allowing the procurer to become an offensive weapon of death, CCP has upset the natural order of the ice belt.



First off:

LOL @ procurer tears.

Second, an ORCA is not a "predator", its a goddamn rock-grinding, hauling, link providing fortress of boredom! So, yes, its combat capabilities are just not going to be there.

Also, IB4L for talking about moderation.

Edit: Possible 7/10 troll? If so, I bit.

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