Player Features and Ideas Discussion

baddon - meant to be cap unfriendly, its a beast. but it does have 4 mids to make up for crap cap. (did it used to have an 8th low did it?) it can fit 8 tachyons and it still tanks more than the oracle whilst doing so, u just have to make some sacrifices else where for that awesome power.

apoc - meant to be cap friendly, it had its former laser cap use bonus rolled into base stats. its fine.

geddon - extra hard points, yeah maybe. but if u dont want to use drones and neuts, why are u using a geddon?

mael - dont think it needs it.

pest - doesnt really know what it is, but then neither does ur opponent. It is still a great wild card. those neuts and 5 mids are freaking useful. However, either turning the T1 or the faction version into 8 gun, range/application bonused artie platforms is very ok with me.

phoon - thats mean. maybe too mean.

rokh - Could do. doesnt really need reactor controls or co-pros.

raven - yes.

scorp - no, doesnt need a damage bonus. its 5th low made it pretty sweet. i'd just like it to be more competitive with the falcon and rook on ecm str. whether the recons come down in str or the scorp goes up.

domi - doing its job

Hyp - its niche in skirmishes leaves it under used. but it does its job.

mega - i believe rise expected the 8th low to be used for a 3rd mag stab, but its more commonly fit with a 3rd 1600mm plate. so its an attack bs with more ehp and less dps than the hyp. Personally preferred the pre change mega with a heavy neut and more dps instead of tank.

What would a mega with a RoF bonus, 7 lows and a 110m/bit drone bay be like?

HACs are fine IMO, with the exception of the ishtar which is only OP due to drone mechanics.

There is next to zero reason to fly a battleship in pvp and this will always be a case as long as CCP use as rock-paper-scissors approach for ship ballance.

Good point; I'll consider dropping the changes I made in favor of leaving it alone, unless I see a better build for it that addresses some of the issues people have. That being said, with the other HACs coming up to par, it may not be necessary to kill its fiitting. Good points were made about not adding more drones; I will take those into consideration.

I would say that in regards to the mega and the abby, the abby should have more low slots. I find that while the megathron does more dps, it IS a little more vulnerable to neutralizers. I would support bringing back the old mega since it was more applicable with rails, and it seemed Rise was intent on turning it into a rofl-stomp blaster boat. I actually do agree with the decision to shift the drones over to the hyperion, since with the lack of a tracking bonus it makes slightly more sense for it to have the big drone bay than the mega.

Also, interesting fact about the hyperion; it's actually the most common battleship that we see outside of giant fleets due to its wonderfully hilarious ability to bait tank, and its nutty amounts of dps. What you said about it being underused makes me curious since the malestrom is used quite frequently for fleets, I assume stems form its ability to field excellent arty damage and be strong in a shield fleet. Would you say the reason the hype doesn't see much use in hybrid/armor fleets is because of the ships bonuses itself, or because it makes more sense to field tempests or amarr laser boats in those giant armor fleets?

The options I mentioned on the geddon were to give the option of making it a straight dps boa with missiles or guns, AND drones to better compete with the domi if it wanted to. In regards to the typhoon and raven, it's THEIR can of worms they opened with introducing the rapid heavies into the game, and it's THEIR fault for half-assing their introduction and failing at the roll-out; they still need to fix ammo swapping, and address how the long reload timer is basically a death sentence if you're fighting an active-tanked ship you can't kill with your initial, tiny clip. To be fair, their reasoning with them being a unique weapon system that should have more unique roles is well-founded, but they should have solved all the issues with their idea BEFORE jamming it down our throats.

Lastly, for the tempest. The typhoon fleet issue is generally considered to be the wild card, but if you had to choose, on the tempest fleet would you consider dropping the RoF bonus in favor of bumping it up to a 10% damage bonus per level, and giving it the tracking speed bonus I proposed for the t1?

The baddon has a 200k ehp tank,1000dps and decent range options with 7 lows. doesnt need anymore tank or gank. but that 4th mid is useful for its cap troubles. This is why its a very popular (not so) little BS. i wouldnt change a thing.

With more dps in its turrets, increased tank (option) and longer targeting range, the new mega is much more of a sniper than the old. it is in fact the old mega that was a better brawler with a heavy neut and drone dps.

i say the hyp is under used because its just not used very much. its, on less kills and killed less than any other T1 BS by quite a margin. This is probably due to short lock range (and thinking of it, i'd buff that lock range) and the active tank bonus being ill suited to the roles BS's find themselves most useful, big F/O blap fests. So the only place u typically find hyps is in close range skirmishes. The mael is spared cause it can do both skirmishes and still find a use in large fleets and bashes with arties.

Geddon already out deeps a domi as is. i use geddons for afk bashing.

if the fleet tempest was given a 10% damage bonus and a tracking bonus then id be ok with that. theres a mess of cross over between the tempest, fleet tempest and (much less so after pirate rebalance) the mach.

id rather not add to the sac's tank and keep the drone bay. DPS is something its lacking, tank it has more than enough of.

Deimos does not need to focus on brawling. its fine as a kitey rail boat. but tracking and RoF bonuses neither buff nor nerf either role.

So much missing the point in this thread. Before doing anything, they need to fix the fact that the Megathron is better than every other BS (other than the obviously unique Armageddon and Scorpion) at everything, and the Ishtar is better than every other cruiser, HAC, BC, and BS at pretty much everything.

Seriously, there is really no reason to ever use a non Mega BS. The only thing it can't do best is snipe past 180km, but that's irrelevant because they can instantly probe a warpin to whatever range they want. The 8/4/7 slot layout combined with the low fitting requirements of railguns means it has significantly higher DPS, range, and EHP than any other option.

The Ishtar is even worse. With the exception of ships with ewar or tackle bonuses, the Ishtar is universally superior to every cruiser, BC, and BS under 1 billion in the game at everything. The only reasons you would use any other ship are cost (t1 stuff is cheaper) and SP. (Ishtar requires a ton of SP) Seriously, it brawls better than any other ship and snipes better than any battleship. 600 DPS at 130km, far higher than any BS puts out. Again, the only thing it doesn't do is >150 km sniping, but there you have the same probe/warpib problem.

Ok I don't get one thing. How can Sacri be fine (OP? really?) in relation to Zealot? The second one is just better at both dps, and tank (since it has 2 extra lows). Granted, Sac has and extra mid for utility, but does it need it? If you are afraid of overtanked Sacri just increase its base dps and leave those damn lows. But 5 lows in HAC is just bad... Retrubution has 5 lows ffs.

Sac has 20% extra resist and more base armor.
Ishtar has 5 lows and it's most often armor fit.

^ if it's more damage you want then you should be asking for a change to the ship bonuses, not an extra low.

To something that does not move at all..

Dear Xequecal,
you should really undock more often and try things out. That missile range only works in fitting tools, thats why a webbifier is mandatory on the Sacrilege.

And the Zealot.
The range bonus the Zealot has should be the first and most important hint for what to do with that ship. Approaching another ship of her size or a bigger boat in a nano ship, guns blazing, should be punished as blasphemy and your ship should explode immediately.

Why would the Zealot want to get close to any ship at all with her fragile state? And why would you want a web and a scram on a kiting ship?