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CCP - Please Remove SOV - (Structures & Timers) aka "Training Wheels"

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2014-07-22 04:33:59 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Hell yeah!


Turn all renter space to NPC, if not all of sov null.


Actually a careful reading of the proposal would tell you that it would not remove Sov, but replace the current Sov mechanic with a new one. The Alliance Capital Station, so instead of dozens of TCUs and IHUBs there'd essentially be one for an entire region.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Beta Maoye
#82 - 2014-07-22 07:59:47 UTC
Open Jove region and put SOV into their backyard. Let them eat their cake. They will agree with you.
TheP4ck4ge
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-07-22 10:45:54 UTC
+1
love the nullsec carebear tears. Fight for what's yours.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-07-22 12:00:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

Edit: crap, i got trolled into a GRRRGOONS thread...

Well playerd SS.
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-07-22 12:04:53 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

What are you talking about?

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-07-22 12:47:45 UTC
Quote:
Walking in station upgrades, Licenses granted for such things as Casinos, bars, shops etc..only available at Alliance Capital Stations…the more come the more isk you make


Heh, that's the first WiS gameplay suggestion I read that doesn't revolve around space barbie clothes...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-07-22 13:07:39 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
+1

, actually surprised about the general positive tone of the thread.


That's just because nobody likes sov, not even the people not living in 0.0.... Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Count Vladimir Dracula
The Crimson Elixir
#88 - 2014-07-22 13:45:41 UTC
+1. Whether it's POS's or TCU's doesn't matter, the entire concept of structure bashing based sov mechanics is flawed.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-07-22 13:59:00 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

What are you talking about?


Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.

NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#90 - 2014-07-22 14:10:58 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

What are you talking about?


Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.

NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.

I believe that you are assuming too much.

Yes, it is human nature to seek the path of least resistance, but you are ignoring that for the player type that wants to build on past efforts, sov null IS that easiest way to go.

To put it simply, the player types that are in NPC null will always be around, but so will the types who build and make sov null their home. If the rules surrounding sov null change, they will adapt to them.
They won't simply change play styles to match your example of low sec or NPC null play, or they would have already done this by now.

If they did not take this path already, I believe it assumes to much to think they will do so after this change.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#91 - 2014-07-22 14:39:16 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

What are you talking about?


Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.

NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.



Except for, you know, players build the stations, and stuff.....


You don't understand much.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#92 - 2014-07-22 14:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
if stations are destructible and no force-fields .. then this idea could work .. system upgrades make no sense anyway really....
make things hackable and quickly destroyable would allow small groups of raiders too work well, steal, loot and destroy ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2014-07-22 15:19:02 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Snot Shot wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
After this fix we'd have:
High sec: 1090
Low sec: 4111
Jove: 230
W-space: 2499

How is this going to make the game better?

What are you talking about?


Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.

NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.



Except for, you know, players build the stations, and stuff.....


You don't understand much.


You didn't read the original post, did you? All player built outposts would be flipped to NPC stations.
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-07-22 15:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Snot Shot
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Well sovless space is equally conquerable as lowsec systems which are not part of the FW space, hence one might as well save time and reclassify it as lowsec if sov is no more.

NPC null is already full of bads who cannot fight with anything else than maledictions, we'd just expand that to whole of nullsec.

Well with a statement like that, and the fact you’re in the bastion, I can only assume you haven’t been playing the game long enough to learn the difference in mechanics between Low and Null Sec space.

Your other statement about null just filling up with “bads” if implemented, did give me a chuckle. Fact is the majority of sov null is already populated with “bads” who have less skill than most NPC Malediction dwellers and can’t do anything other than shoot rats and hit F1 when stuffed into a 3,000 man station camping blobs. Current SOV mechanics allow the most incompetent of all EVE pilots to hide behind millions of structure hit points and timers if they can simply get enough incompetents together for a few weeks to overwhelm the opposition.

Just because SOV goes away it doesn’t mean you “lose your space”, it just means you own what you can control/police/defend/and farm with your Corp or Alliance. NIPs, NAPs, BoTLRDs, and standings would still provide the “protection” you covet. You can then focus on creative things like how/where to construct your Alliance Cap Station and what upgrades/options the Alliance wants for it along with who can use the Embassy’s and other cool things this game could offer if it wasn’t a f*cking slab of concrete controlled by 3 or 4 people at this point.

Edit: Also if you're worried about "where is my Alliance name on the EVE map!", maybe whoever has an Alliance Cap Station in a Region ends up with thier name on the EVE map. Good........yaay..Blink

This SOV thing reminds me of **** we use to read about in psychology class where a simple animal would be taught to press a button to get a piece of kibble and ended up dying when the kibble stopped dropping because it never learned how to forage and think for itself etc. SOV is that button and has dumbed this game down so much its f*cking ridiculous.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2014-07-22 15:56:52 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
All player built outposts would be flipped to NPC stations.

Who cares if all the outposts are open to all for docking etc. You use what stations your Alliance can control while the rest you police/hot drop and possibly rent out via blue standings ( no not access standings, just "don’t shoot me standings"). Maybe having a Allaince Cap Station in the region allows you to grant bonuses to folks you set blue as renters in your region etc.

CCP may decide to make these outposts and stations destructible someday but before they do, and everyone starts just killing them all, why not open them up allowing everyone with trapped assets for years to have access and to see how the players use/integrate them into the new "SOV less" state of Null Sec.

The other thing people squeal about is "we build/paid for" that outpost!! Well in almost all cases no you didn’t, someone else from years past did so htfu.

Anyways, just remember getting rid of SOV is the request, everything else after that is on the table for discussion and tweaks but current 0.0 is so bound up by these millions of HP that it badly needs a good enema to get this game moving again.
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-07-22 16:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Quote:
Anyways, just remember getting rid of SOV is the request, everything else after that is on the table for discussion and tweaks but current 0.0 is so bound up by these millions of HP that it badly needs a good enema to get this game moving again.


I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.

Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change?
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2014-07-22 17:09:29 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.

Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change?

How bout we do this, you tell us what the benefit is now for wasting thousands of hours/peoples time shooting, anchoring, blue balling, and alarm clocking for timers and I’ll go into great detail as to what the game would gain for not having to do that.

Now before you get side tracked reeling off all the benefits of “owning SOV”……….. aka, Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items. Without getting to f***ing complicated, I’m pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess it’s in now”. That’s where CCP and players can get creative……Blink
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-07-22 17:20:01 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
I re-read the OP, you didn't state what would be the benefit of getting rid of Sov outside of subjective opinions.

Can you elaborate what the game would gain from the change?

How bout we do this, you tell us what the benefit is now for wasting thousands of hours/peoples time shooting, anchoring, blue balling, and alarm clocking for timers and I’ll go into great detail as to what the game would gain for not having to do that.

Now before you get side tracked reeling off all the benefits of “owning SOV”……….. aka, Jump Bridges, Cyno Gens, Jammers, CSAAs, and all the other SOV driven items. Without getting to f***ing complicated, I’m pretty sure most of you guys can figure out how to tie those back into the system without turning 0.0 into the same mess it’s in now”. That’s where CCP and players can get creative……Blink
.


Structure timers are stupid and should be nuked, I agree on that fully. Nuking the whole sov system is a tad erratic. Sometimes you need to put a sick animal down, but what if we try a less lethal remedy first?

Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.

How about it?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#99 - 2014-07-22 17:35:24 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.

How about it?

Not for nothing, but his bullet points from the OP sounded like a good list of the benefits to me...

Snot Shot wrote:
...
So what are some of the outcomes to doing this…………SOV goes away effectively turning Null Sec back into the “Lawless Space” it’s always been advertised as…………..Station and Out Post docking doors are flung wide open across all of Null Sec and 10 years of trapped assets are unlocked for thousands of current, and past, pilots to use again. Pilots are logging in by the thousands and Null Sec springs back to life.

• Alliances are no longer pinned under the weight of coalitions in order to “keep their space”………..they simply need to live in, and actively defend it for it to be theirs.

• Local and regional politics would develop with leaders/war lord’s etc. coming out of the wood works to govern with limited power to hold over players’ heads.

• Back room deals can be made by the lowest level grunt each day which could drastically impact what happens throughout a constellation or region……stronger relationships are born.

• Contracts mechanics are developed to support regional trade and local deals.

• Ninja living in Null Sec could be done by anyone who wanted to take the risk alone, in Corps, Alliances by choice while others hunted them.

• Grass roots market HUBs and industry in Null Sec would grow to amazing size and use all over null sec….Jita size HUBs policed by Mercs etc………. Mos Isley Space Station etc…

• And so many other opportunities for player driven content would come to life all around 0.0 as players were free to move where they wanted if they were willing to take the risk and develop the relationships..

So no SOV………all the stations and out posts are free ported……….now what? Where can I plant my Alliance flag? What will it be?........my thoughts a “Alliance Capital Station”……destructible……

Alliance Capital Station - Each Alliance can launch one “Capital Station” (Per Region?) which is destructible. Mechanics of how it’s destructible, timers, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with.
...

In simple terms, I would expect increased interaction to be the primary result.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-07-22 18:02:36 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Structure timers are stupid and should be nuked, I agree on that fully. Nuking the whole sov system is a tad erratic. Sometimes you need to put a sick animal down, but what if we try a less lethal remedy first?

Also I love it how you demand people to defend the status quo and at the same time cannot explain why your implementation would be best for the game.

How about it?

Well tbh I’m pretty lazy and struggle to care about EVE in game mechanics unless I’m bombing in my Hound….Pirate Getting into the kind of jousting match you’re angling for over this topic would make people think that I’ve got some sort of passion for my SOV’less Null Sec idea…Ugh It’s an idea and, with most, people are going to see the positives and negatives but still rally for the side which benefits their own personal agenda………especially in EVE…Blink

With that said, feel free to go back and reread some of my posts in this thread and you will find some of the reasons I think this would be “good” for the game……..not sure there is a “best” for the game, but that’s probably part of the bait for your set up anyways…..Roll
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com