Live Events Discussion

It's a relatively common mistake to presume that the Federation, its politicians and its corporate interests/lobby groups are stereotypically listless, lazy and naive ideologues compared with their counterparts in the State.

There's really not much evidence for this - the truth of just how ruthless they need to be to survive the viper pit of the Federation's realpolitik is exposed in multiple chronicles, by the presence of the Black Eagles and in the rise and rise of Jacus Roden, his connections with the underworld via Serpentis corp and the parallel increase in power of the Federal military-industrial machine which is heavily invested in seeing that the faction wars continue to drive the need for research and manufacturing of new tech to ensure the militias are capable of killing each other in the most efficient manner possible.

In this context, Material Acquisition and the Federal administration are unlikely to have simply given away the strategic and diplomatic bargaining chips they had with their possession of Caldari Prime (or at least several major cities of importance to the State). One of the interesting questions that could be a source for ongoing Gal-Cal conflict is just what price MA and Roden demanded of Mens Reppola before and after sitting down at the negotiating table and what the latter ended up paying or continues to pay as a result.

there can be no peace till every Galentean is purged from the Luminaire system

No. There's no reason FW can't end. It should end. It's a terrible mechanic that hasn't been maintained for years, has been the subject of numerous bad storylines that were basically mandated by the outcome of FW which, as we all know, was the subject of vast amounts of exploiting and abuse of mechanics due to the aforementioned lack of maintenance. It also ties Gallente-Caldari roleplay down to a war that's well past its sell-by date. Even in-character the war is a joke, considered nothing more than a proxy distraction by anyone who isn't totally brainwashed.

If Gallente-Caldari relations are improving there's absolutely no reason why FW shouldn't be shut down.

"L'État, c'est moi!"
Ishukone CEO Otro Gariushi, YC110

Nah. They'll fight so long as people up top in the two empires see advantage in either being at war, or by winning it.

I mean, leaving aside pride and history between the the two empires, think about how much money capsuleer industrialists make when nullsec empires fight. Based on the average L4 mission, NPC navies are much bigger, and someone's building them, and getting paid to make them.
Think about the mineral rights for an entire solar system, and if that's worth fighting over. Think which NPC corps would happily use the war to weaken their rivals in the next state over. Think which corps would use the war to weaken their 'allied' corporates who live closer to the borders.
Think which big R&D corps rely on State or Federal funding to post their massive profits. If there's no war, who's gonna fund the development costs for T3 dessies? Sure, the Capsuleers might, but that's probably the last thing anyone running a megacorp wants to see.


War is business, and so long as business is doing well, the war has reason to exist.

War is bolstering both the State and Federal economies with very little actual investment from them, since they're fighing it via proxy.

There are a hell of a lot of conflicts in the real world, some extremely recent, that have less miltary and security related justification and far more heavily linked ecomomic and political reasons for sustainment.

It's true that real world examples of war before the advent of most new battlefield technology, (i.e. World War II) have shown that prosperity is restored by the sharp drop in spending, taxes and regulation at the end if a conflict, along with a huge proportion of the regular workforce "coming home" from deployment.

However this isn't the case in modern society, as people who're actively serving in the military tend not to be displaced by war in such huge numbers any more. While there are boots on the ground, a much larger proportion of war is now fought by proxy, using drone technology and long range weaponry, which doesn't put huge strain on the blue collar workforce to anywar near the extent that mass deployment of troops used to before the advent of modern warfare.

For the Empyrean War, capsuleers are the proxy.

Regardless of what happens, even if a conflict is impossible to win, if both sides persist in fighting without entering negotiation for a ceasefire, then neither side will back down. As soon as one side does, the other steamrolls through.

Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.

This is creating sustainable economic demand for goods and services that's keeping both economies from seeing a post conflict slump and recovery, and keeping trillions of people in the blue collar workforce employed and out of military service.

With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari threat, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.

Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD.

This is actually a really nice description of it. Shines a new light on it for me.

Propose an alternative that explains over six years of constant warfare fought by irregular forces in strictly limited frontier territories with no apparent consequences or threat to the integrity or security of Empire core worlds, no end in sight, and, as you put it, no way to win.

They're doing it because the people in charge have something to gain from it. Why is that difficult to understand? Hell, look at some of the players involved: the President of the Federation owns a vast shipbuilding enterprise with Navy contracts; several Caldari megacorporations, not least of which Kaalakiota (of which Tibus Heth was once CEO) are major arms manufacturers. War in New Eden is very good for business, particularly the business of those in the position to end it (and who therefore have no incentive to do so).

Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia would like a word with you...

I love that this thread became a thing again. It hurts to read these forums while unsubbed and know I can't reply. Good to be back, and good to know people still care about this.