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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-05-17 17:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
The issue with BCs has allways been bomber fleets. MJD thing alleviates that issue a bit but I do think it is a step in wrong direction as it promotes less kill mail for medium gangs. *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Saul Hyperion
Palmetto Galactic
#22 - 2014-05-17 17:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Saul Hyperion
This is awful. A whole new level of cowardice in small gang is about to happen.

I want change that result in more ships blowing up, not less.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-05-17 17:11:52 UTC
This will be a nice addition for battle cruisers.

Are we ever going to see meta, T2 and faction version of the MJD?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-05-17 17:14:49 UTC
Is there a way you can remove attack battle cruisers from using these things for right now? They already do just fine with kiting and sniping. Even capable of anti-frigate work. Letting them fit one of these will make them incredibly over powered in small gang situations.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#25 - 2014-05-17 17:22:09 UTC
Better this than that bungee jumping structure. At least MMJD comes with fitting sacrifice.

Invalid signature format
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#26 - 2014-05-17 17:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
"Oh man I just fleet warped my entire rail naga fleet into the enemy bubbles. I guess we are all dead, sorry for derping the fleet.

j/k, everyone just align and run your mjd on landing, we will lose like 5 or 10 guys that they manage to scram in 10s"

Im not entirely sure that *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. was in need of such a large buff.
Asa Shahni
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#27 - 2014-05-17 17:26:00 UTC
Make it available for T3 and Force Recon Ships please.

AB-MJD pulse legion FTW.

Also I think FRs need a little something apart from being a cloaky underpower EWAR ship.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2014-05-17 17:26:07 UTC
I for one welcome out new T3 Batlecruiser overlords.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Akashi Suenobu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-05-17 17:28:59 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
Hmm, and here I thought MJDs were designed as a BS niche, as a fix for their, uh, rather horrible mobility.

Fozzie, does this mean you think BCs are in a similar situation as battleships were when the LMJD was introduced, or did you think they could just use another tool in the box? Smile



IIRC when they put out the first MJDs they also suggested that smaller versions were in development.
Ripard Teg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-05-17 17:30:44 UTC
Ugh.

The only way to catch medium or large BC fleets these days is to bubble them in. Now you're effectively giving these fleets bubble immunity. For instance, we're currently seeing large PL Vulture fleets in Provi. Those fleets can kick ass and take names, but we've been able to counter them with bubbles and massed Ruptures. We lose a huge number of Ruptures, but it's a viable counter.

Now we're still going to lose a huge number of Ruptures if we fight them, but 80% or more of the Vultures will get away. And if we bring a bunch of scrambling tacklers, the Vultures will just refuse to engage. If we can't tackle the fleet, we're not going to engage it. So we're just not going to fight them. And I doubt we're going to be alone in that. The default position when facing a large BC fleet will become "Guys, we don't have enough scrams and they're just going to get away. Everyone dock up and we'll wait for them to leave." or "They're BCs, we'll just out-run them."

So by doing this you're reducing the number of fights and reducing the number of BCs you're going to see on KMs and loss-mails as a result. I'm pretty sure that isn't your goal.

I don't mind these so much on attack BCs. They do kind of go with the role of a coward sitting 150 off a gate in his untanked super-tracking Tornado. But they're going to be OP on combat BCs.

Overall though, I would prefer that you look for another way to rebalance BCs and in the meantime you either give DSTs a role bonus to large MJDs or you limit medium MJDs to DSTs only for now.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#31 - 2014-05-17 17:31:28 UTC
Bad idea.

Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.

See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.

Is there any point left in this game?

Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster.
Akashi Suenobu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-05-17 17:35:47 UTC
I have a question. I know if you're scrammed you can't MJD, but what about multiple long points?
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#33 - 2014-05-17 17:36:32 UTC
Sometimes CCP you make me wonder if you just really hate people that kite.

Every time you force more scrams you severely limit the mobility envelope of ships, something that doesn't hurt brawling setups in the least but it really hurts kiting setups. In recent history you made long range neuts more common, you made speed difference between existing ships smaller with a lot of the tiercide re-balancing, you added multiple drone speed bonuses, you kicked tracking enhancers is the nuts and now you're adding a get out of jail free card for non BS hulls. Small gang kiting setups have already gone from being viable in the 20-28km range to now only being viable 28 and up range and this will just make it harder for those of us that skirmish again.

I'd request you at least think really hard on this once more, I can see why you might want this for command ships to encourage their usage on grid. But attack battle cruisers really don't need this, they're already fairly dodgy to tackle (especially if there's more then one or two) with long points, forcing scrams is really not required imho.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#34 - 2014-05-17 17:43:14 UTC
Rab See wrote:
Bad idea.

Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.

See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.

Is there any point left in this game?

Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster.


Or you know, any of the ships with a range extension to points, arazu anyone :P
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#35 - 2014-05-17 17:47:42 UTC
Excellent choice of ship.
The T1 indus could also have the possibility to fit it...

Battlecruisers, Command Ships and Deep Space transport ships really needed this mobility option.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#36 - 2014-05-17 17:49:13 UTC
This is super worrying as a change:

1. Disruptors are becoming more and more useless, as almost always you will need to go with scrams.

2. Bubbles are even more useless for holding down a fleet

3. The original purpose of the MJD was to allow BS to move around the field easier cause of how horrible their agility and speed is. Battlecruisers don't really have that huge of a problem with that.


What should be done is allow this to be used in the same manor but don't make it immune to bubbles. It would allow the mod to be a niche mod that would still find use but not overshadow the MJD, but still have a way to tackle large sniper fleets, without just having them warp off or MJD out. Possibly a longer spool time would be better as well, to limit the use in lowsec.

I don't know, this just feels really dumb as a mod, it's like giving the risk averse more and more ways to run away, which seems bad for pvp.

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#37 - 2014-05-17 17:51:05 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
Rab See wrote:
Bad idea.

Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.

See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.

Is there any point left in this game?

Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster.


Or you know, any of the ships with a range extension to points, arazu anyone :P


That's still pretty short, basically this is a huge nerf to small skilled gangs engaging blobs, they can't get close as they would be insta gibbed, and can't tackle from where they can fight...

I don't see much in the way of positives introducing that module...
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2014-05-17 17:51:10 UTC
This is terrible don't do this, you're making it increasingly easy to avoid combat in a game where picking a fight can already be an extreme challenge.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#39 - 2014-05-17 17:51:11 UTC
Red Crown wrote:
Combat BCs are still in a very bad place and due to their cruiser ranges won't derive much benefit from MMJDs.

I can definitely see how this will be a Very Cool Thing in a lot of situations, especially with Attack BCs, but not as much in medium to large fleet fights.


it would be cool if the range of the jump was able to be "toggled" that way you can jump anywhere from 10km to 100km...

that would help combat ships as they could close range and unleash the blasters real fast.

also make the range and spool up time and cool down time reflected on how far you go.

so if its 100km 3 min cool down and long spool up

but its its 10km like a 30 second cool down and almost instant spool up.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-05-17 17:52:06 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
The issue with BCs has allways been bomber fleets. MJD thing alleviates that issue a bit but I do think it is a step in wrong direction as it promotes less kill mail for medium gangs. so basically **** this change.



Bombs explode after 10 seconds. with a skill at level 5, the spool up time is 9 seconds. You would need everyone in the fleet to notice the bombs and jump, without orders, the instant they are launched for this to have any effect on bombing runs.