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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

First post First post First post
Author
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#361 - 2014-05-19 02:10:48 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
The MMJd will have the side effect, of bringing more BC into the field. Sure they will have the possibility to escape, but they do not need to escape if they are not there at all!
So more battlecruisers to Fight, more battlecruisers to be used in more space.

Sure fewer easy kills of new players who stray into dangerous space, but more use of them and more GF.

What's not to like?


Weather you can bounce a point doesn't matter, a faster feet will STILL run you down at 2.5au/s

So meh, interesting, but nothing to get worked about.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#362 - 2014-05-19 02:48:49 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:


Why because you can no longer perma-tackle with your insert long point, snaked, and/or boosted insert annoying frig here against a brawler? Shame on you. No one is stopping you from committing to a fight like a brawler has to. Now the brawler has the same ability to disengage from the kiter when he knows he can't catch him.

EDIT: p.s. Bring a scram and all of your problems are solved. It's not like every ship in game minus a BS is faster than a BC or CS....


-----------------------------WHOOOOSH--------------->>>>>>

O < (your head)

To stop a MJD ship, you have to get in range and get a scram on it before the spool up time. Frigates are the ships to do this with; they have the speed to get in range in time. Frigates are almost instapoped by gate guns, and as the first ship on the target, are also guarunteed to be shot at by gate guns. So tackle frig goes ZOOM > Scram > Dead > Target escapes.

IOW, the intended counter to this module is nonfunctional in lowsec.

This is about tackling on a gate, not the module's use in a fight, so your post completely misses the point.
Challenged
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#363 - 2014-05-19 03:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Challenged
Seems like the people not happy with this are the ones flying in inty gangs with only long points, or fast cruisers at medium range.

Bring back the BRAWL. Heavy ships warping to zero on each other, blasting each other into oblivion! Booyeah!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#364 - 2014-05-19 03:17:42 UTC
Challenged wrote:
Bring back the BRAWL. Heavy ships warping to zero on each other, blasting each other into oblivion! Booyeah!

BALLS DEEP MOFOS
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#365 - 2014-05-19 03:31:34 UTC
Challenged wrote:
Seems like the people not happy with this are the ones flying in inty gangs with only long points, or fast cruisers at medium range.

Bring back the BRAWL. Heavy ships warping to zero on each other, blasting each other into oblivion! Booyeah!


That happens now but it shouldn't be the only way to fight either, which is what we're slowly being forced into.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

X ATM092
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#366 - 2014-05-19 03:32:13 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Just adding my voice to the haters. Seems to me that it just makes it too easy to get out of fights. It also trivializes the long point, the hics and dictors. As a low sec dweller, much of the combat starts on gates, basically this acts as a nerf on lowsec combat - getting in range fast enough to apply a scram is not going to be easy or fun. At the very least - it should be made so that two long points acts as a functional scram (since its two points of disruption) and the hic infinity point should be made to work again to stop the mjd.


+1

It is doubly true since fast tackle - inties, frigates - don't mix well with gate guns. Because of that, there is effectively no counter to this module that works in lowsec.


absolutely - lowsec just got boosted with the changes to gate guns and now its taking a major step backwards with small grps and solos really taking a hard shot to the nuts.

Try a Proteus or Recon, or just logi on a Keres. Works just fine.

Your solution to this is that solo pilots bring more logis and eafs? I think you may have failed to understand the nature of the problem.
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#367 - 2014-05-19 03:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrthiis
I'm amazed that CCP is wasting development ressources on this mods ,without even trying to fix the t1 BC lines and their navy counterpart .Turn off the water before messing the pipes ....
On the mod itself 100 Km is too much ,and i feel the commands ships would be Op with .
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#368 - 2014-05-19 04:04:20 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Challenged wrote:
Bring back the BRAWL. Heavy ships warping to zero on each other, blasting each other into oblivion! Booyeah!

BALLS DEEP MOFOS


QFT

Also, I just had an idea.

Rather than a MJD jumping you Xkm straight forward..........it drops you on your current target as long as it's within it's range.

Viola. Kitey McKiterson can't complain that he can't keep targets pinned down with his long point and the brawlers get a nice new toy.

It's a win-win.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#369 - 2014-05-19 04:39:44 UTC
This module is going to be awesome! The only thing better is the 18 pages of tears that it generated... Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#370 - 2014-05-19 04:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ines Tegator wrote:
Yun Kuai wrote:


Why because you can no longer perma-tackle with your insert long point, snaked, and/or boosted insert annoying frig here against a brawler? Shame on you. No one is stopping you from committing to a fight like a brawler has to. Now the brawler has the same ability to disengage from the kiter when he knows he can't catch him.

EDIT: p.s. Bring a scram and all of your problems are solved. It's not like every ship in game minus a BS is faster than a BC or CS....


-----------------------------WHOOOOSH--------------->>>>>>

O < (your head)

To stop a MJD ship, you have to get in range and get a scram on it before the spool up time. Frigates are the ships to do this with; they have the speed to get in range in time. Frigates are almost instapoped by gate guns, and as the first ship on the target, are also guarunteed to be shot at by gate guns. So tackle frig goes ZOOM > Scram > Dead > Target escapes.

IOW, the intended counter to this module is nonfunctional in lowsec.

This is about tackling on a gate, not the module's use in a fight, so your post completely misses the point.



No.
Chase it with an interceptor, It warps straight away follow it! You will come out of warp before he does.
You do not have to sit there scratching your head at the gate feeling hard done by.
Work a little for the kills.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#371 - 2014-05-19 04:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Onictus wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
The MMJd will have the side effect, of bringing more BC into the field. Sure they will have the possibility to escape, but they do not need to escape if they are not there at all!
So more battlecruisers to Fight, more battlecruisers to be used in more space.

Sure fewer easy kills of new players who stray into dangerous space, but more use of them and more GF.

What's not to like?


Weather you can bounce a point doesn't matter, a faster feet will STILL run you down at 2.5au/s

So meh, interesting, but nothing to get worked about.


Absolutely right, when he MJDs away and straight into warp, a little effort and skill will get you on the landing BC even before he lands. if he has a good safe, pre set up that he warps to, then well done BC pilot you deserve to slip their clutches.
Gates were not designed to provide easy kills that reward just anyone waiting with an instalock . what counter does a BC currently have? They just do not come. With this they have a chance.
Let good pilots use this to good effect, and good campers to learn to counter it.
You clearly have already thought of the ways to counter it, so will be ready to deal with it.

Others however, still seem have not realised, that Gate camping is not an inalienable right. It is a method of combat that has evolved to take advantage of the mechanic.
Now the mechanic is changing.
The campers will need to adapt, just as they have told their prey ad infinitum.

This is a good thing ™

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#372 - 2014-05-19 05:29:15 UTC
So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?

Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths

Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths

epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths


Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?
badboymark
Cyber Collapse.
Fanatic Legion.
#373 - 2014-05-19 05:34:05 UTC
Chessur wrote:
So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?

Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths

Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths

epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths


Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?


This is good I like this. So ccp well you listen to the people that actually play the game or the fans yelling from the sideline's.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#374 - 2014-05-19 05:37:32 UTC
Chessur wrote:
So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?

Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths

Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths

epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths


Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?


As we all know, EVE is a single character-per-account and single account-per-player world. This means that anything posted by a character with no discernable pvp history is, in fact, stupid.

Also, this is a form of ad hominem. The facts of the discussion are what matters, the source is irrelevent. Everyone could be anonymous and the content would not change.
AskariRising
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#375 - 2014-05-19 05:44:23 UTC
im waiting for small MJD's for my interceptors lol
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#376 - 2014-05-19 05:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks* already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

*a distant BM (300km) and several nearer BMs can be used for tactical dominance of a gate, if the defenders have time to set them up. Total round trip, 2 warps, will be 10-15 seconds for a nano fit or 15-20 seconds for an armor fit. This is only slighlty slower then the MMJD, but allows much more control over range and none of the disadvantages. The only way that the MMJD is superior is in trying to escape (theres that word again) bubbles, or in territory that your side has not had time to make tacs for.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics); it does not have any counters that are easily used in a small gang (in lowsec, due gate guns killing tacklers in seconds).

If CCP intends this as a PVP avoidance tool, then say so. Because that's the only area where it offers significant advantages.

Suggestions to correct these flaws:


-Reduce it's jump distance to 75km.
-Give it a Warp Core Strength of +2. (not affected by stabs). This will allow it to be tackled by multiple long points, or a faction long point, or a scripted HIC (credit to badboymark)
-Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module. (A 10-sec universal delay, or system sec based delay would not be a bad thing in general, come to think of it).

With these changes, it becomes a counter to Warp Bubbles more then an escape device. This preserves its combat niche, and makes its escape function more difficult but still useful.

*Edited to update suggestions.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#377 - 2014-05-19 05:55:23 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#378 - 2014-05-19 05:57:17 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous


I'd be fine with that, but I didn't suggest it since it seems to be intended sepcifically. Will adjust my post.
badboymark
Cyber Collapse.
Fanatic Legion.
#379 - 2014-05-19 05:57:29 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous


What about if faction disruptors stopped them ?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#380 - 2014-05-19 05:59:48 UTC
badboymark wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous


What about if faction disruptors stopped them ?

That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1