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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Kelsi Monroe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#701 - 2014-05-18 13:09:21 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
It's like Fozzie has never actually played Eve


¿Doing logistics for a big corp/alliance? Pretty sure. Only someone with a complete ignorace of how boring logistics can be would propose this changes.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#702 - 2014-05-18 13:13:16 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
I still say the nerfs had nothing to do with the addition of rigs and the 'told you so' crowd is missing this point intentionally just to harvest more tears. Firs came the nerfs and to sell them as (semi-)boosts rigs were thrown in. Under this point of view the changes suddenly become logical.

It just as logical the other way around, and more parsimonious too since they could just nerf stuff if they wanted to without any need to sell anything.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#703 - 2014-05-18 13:14:10 UTC
Kelsi Monroe wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
It's like Fozzie has never actually played Eve


¿Doing logistics for a big corp/alliance? Pretty sure. Only someone with a complete ignorace of how boring logistics can be would propose this changes.


and yet freighter pilots have been proposing it for years.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#704 - 2014-05-18 13:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Axe Coldon wrote:


You must not use a JF. It makes the transition back to high sec. To do that it jumps to low sec and then has to go thru a high sec gate like everyone else..and there it can get ganked. There is the risk. Because you warp to 0 and jump its near impossible to get you on the low sec side. They do the high sec gank thing.

In jumping out of null/npc stations there is risk though not as much as before. Certain stations have almost no zero range at undock. What they do is wait above the station with a bumping ship and bubblers (null). You undock and they bump you away from zero while the guy puts a bubble up so you can't jump and you are bumped so you can't get back in. Then drop in the killing fleet and you are dead. No it doesn't happen much but it does. Just pointing out there is risk in cyno'ing.


What you laid out here just means that - like any other capitall size ship - it isn't a solo one (or at least it shouldn't be flyied solo). If you have an alt scout, or a friend of yours, you will be at least able to avoid these dangers. And if you have an armed escort, you can just break through. It all hardly can be percieved as an argument.

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Kelsi Monroe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#705 - 2014-05-18 13:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelsi Monroe
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Kelsi Monroe wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
It's like Fozzie has never actually played Eve


¿Doing logistics for a big corp/alliance? Pretty sure. Only someone with a complete ignorace of how boring logistics can be would propose this changes.


and yet freighter pilots have been proposing it for years.


Freighter pilots can´t write devlogs.

Also this isn´t going to hit only freighter pilots. Industrial changes are risky, these changes are just dumb. And there are many CiFi games coming out in the last quarter of the year that doesn´t involve hauling s*** in the most boring mechanic posible while risking 60€ (+cargo) in virtual pixels.
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#706 - 2014-05-18 13:41:40 UTC
Quote:

Seagull: Enablers are the people who make the logistics for these large-scale things actually work. They are people who run mad spreadsheets to organize production lines for war efforts, they are people who manage roles and membership of big corporations and alliances, they build tools to do different tasks.
And we kind of have a history of treating these people like…****. We put these people through a lot of painful, unnecessary work.

Seagull: The approach that I want to take, is that if we look at these people and design exciting things for them, and make their lives less like hell doing the things they want to do anyway, that will create all kinds of interesting dynamics in EVE Online as a world.



CSM Winter 2012 Summit Minutes
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#707 - 2014-05-18 13:53:50 UTC
Kelsi Monroe wrote:
Also this isn´t going to hit only freighter pilots. Industrial changes are risky, these changes are just dumb. And there are many CiFi games coming out in the last quarter of the year that doesn´t involve hauling s*** in the most boring mechanic posible while risking 60€ (+cargo) in virtual pixels.

Then don't haul them. If no one will be willing to haul them, your alliance will think about building them on spot, at last. Thats your readiness to spend hours of your life on this boring stuff that makes it far more profitable to supply all corporation/alliance's needs from jita for your CEOs, and not to invest something in local infrastracture and risk those investments while deciding to participate in a war. That makes things rather boring than they could be down here.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#708 - 2014-05-18 13:57:27 UTC
CCP FOZZIE


Are you going to rebalance the Fuel usage of the jf's now that they all have very similar cargo?

The extra Fuel expense of the Rhea was justified by it being able to carry an extra battle ship compared to the other races, now that's no longer the case, the extra fuel expense isn't justified, and needs rebalancing too.

Also, Why do 3 races of JF get a 4% boost to max cargo while the rhea gets a 1.2% boost? Its Racism against Caldari logistics

If the cargo is going to be affected by 2.8% compaired to the others. The fuel usage should be reduced by 2.8% too
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#709 - 2014-05-18 14:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vhelnik Cojoin
THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA ! Evil

(Copy-paste from an earlier post in the thread, as my views might not have been too obvious in my previous ramblings.)

The only possible justification for this idea is if CCP actually wants less industry in the game, not more. If the devs believe reducing mobility of bulky items like uncompressed ore will make people spread out more, while making logistics more risky as well (due to ease of suicide ganking), then all I can do is :facepalm:

Also, I never asked for this. Does this mean my freighter won't change? (Yeah, yeah...)

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#710 - 2014-05-18 14:05:13 UTC
Well these changes are part of the multiple different changes required to create local industry in 0.0. All these changes are changing the game massively and everybody will be affected.

Ignorant people claiming it was JF pilots asking for rigs are just being windup merchants and deserve a contempt filled stare and confirmation that they are very stupid, this is really pushing it to make industry local, which is what the big 0.0 alliances wanted, nothing to do with people wanting and not getting improved EHP for their freighters and Jump Freighters.

Its a bad change in terms of JF's and freighters, but for the goal that CCP is aiming at local industry in 0.0 it hits the spot, the problem is that for me is another kick in the nuts.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#711 - 2014-05-18 14:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dracvlad wrote:
Ignorant people claiming it was JF pilots asking for rigs are just
…stating facts, and are being met with abuse now as then when pointing out the obvious consequences.

Quote:
this is really pushing it to make industry local, which is what the big 0.0 alliances wanted, nothing to do with people wanting and not getting improved EHP for their freighters and Jump Freighters.
The big nullsec alliances weren't particularly fussed about industry being local — they just wanted null industry to not be a thoroughly braindead proposition. The Crius changes will address that to some extent, but the main problem is that null industry can't be local. It relies on materials that can't be had locally, but which have to be imported from all over the place (via higsec).

This change makes such imports more annoying and will, if anything, concentrate industry more around the central trading hubs than before. Granted, in many cases it's thoroughly inefficient to import the materials rather than the final product regardless, so the effect will be fairly minor.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#712 - 2014-05-18 14:15:16 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Its a bad change in terms of JF's and freighters, but for the goal that CCP is aiming at local industry in 0.0 it hits the spot, the problem is that for me is another kick in the nuts.


There has to and there are other way to improve and enable industry and self-sustainability in 00 sec. Ways that require a bit more thinking on CCP's and the player side, but that is too much to ask apparently.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#713 - 2014-05-18 14:19:05 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
There has to and there are other way to improve and enable industry and self-sustainability in 00 sec. Ways that require a bit more thinking on CCP's and the player side, but that is too much to ask apparently.

Will be interesting to see if Mittens will ask his fellow Goons to venture forth and mine Veldspar in 0.0 for their supercap production, or if they still expect to import compressed ore from HiSec...

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.

Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#714 - 2014-05-18 14:21:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The guy who wants a balance between cargo and agility and tank will end up with something that is mediocre in all three and which does not stack up to the old ships' capabilities because the overall baseline had to come down to compensate for those extremist fits.


That is not given, numbers can be tweaked and extremes accepted (like the new +20% cargo freighters).
Kelsi Monroe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#715 - 2014-05-18 14:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelsi Monroe
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Kelsi Monroe wrote:
Also this isn´t going to hit only freighter pilots. Industrial changes are risky, these changes are just dumb. And there are many CiFi games coming out in the last quarter of the year that doesn´t involve hauling s*** in the most boring mechanic posible while risking 60€ (+cargo) in virtual pixels.

Then don't haul them. If no one will be willing to haul them, your alliance will think about building them on spot, at last. Thats your readiness to spend hours of your life on this boring stuff that makes it far more profitable to supply all corporation/alliance's needs from jita for your CEOs, and not to invest something in local infrastracture and risk those investments while deciding to participate in a war. That makes things rather boring than they could be down here.


Most of the items that players use are TII, in order to build TII you need material of all across the galaxy/server, are these materials going move by themselves to our local infrastructure?

I think giving a boost lo local production is a great idea, f***** freighter/JF pilots in the process isn´t.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#716 - 2014-05-18 14:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Kelsi Monroe wrote:

Most of the items that players use are TII, in order to build TII you need material of all across the galaxy/server, are these materials going move by themselves to our local infrastructure?

Lets imagine for a second that you don't need to haul anything but those special materials and components. No hulls, ammo, or minerals, available in your local space - nothing. Only those selected items you are absolutely need to import and can't gather them at home. Woulnd't it become even less of a hassle this way then it is now for logistics guys?

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Sorania Whiting
Souls of Steel
#717 - 2014-05-18 14:46:17 UTC
Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
#718 - 2014-05-18 14:46:28 UTC
Lets just all quit the game and let the ccp devs play the game on their own the can nerf the crap out of then all they like and nobody will care
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#719 - 2014-05-18 14:48:03 UTC
Kelsi Monroe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#720 - 2014-05-18 14:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelsi Monroe
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Kelsi Monroe wrote:

Most of the items that players use are TII, in order to build TII you need material of all across the galaxy/server, are these materials going move by themselves to our local infrastructure?

Lets imagine for a second that you don't need to haul anything but those special material and components. No hulls, ammo, or minerals, available in your local space - nothing. Only those selected items you are absolutely need to import and can't gather them at home. Woulnd't it become even less of a hassle this way then it is now for logistics guys?


The new industrial revamp increases manufacturing costs with each new work installed, even in null sec; so if you whant to make null industry worth it you won´t increase the cost of manufacturing (lets say) 1000munins (lol) manufacturing 1000 ruptures, so; where are this ships going to come from? And how?

I think Fozzie should work (yes, beacause it's the cosest thing to a real life tedious work) in a big alliance logistic wing for a couple of weeks. and then give this devlog another view.