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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#681 - 2014-05-18 11:49:38 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I'm only objecting to these changes because they aren't a proper gigantic real nerf like I wanted. I find it amusing hearing JF owners go on about how unfair this is and how hard they have things.


Translation: "I want massive nerfs to things that other people fly, but not what I fly. People upset about massive investments of time and isk being nerfed are automatically wrong"

That's cool - good to make it nice and clear you're not capable of intelligent discussion early in the encounter. Won't bother replying further.


you're pretty terrible. I benefit from JFs just like anyone else, even though I don't own one. it's called having friends. I don't know why you're going into butthurt mode.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#682 - 2014-05-18 11:56:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
Jump freighter usage is all about cargo, cargo, cargo. Increasing your cargo reduces the number of trips you have to make, period, which serves to both reduce the amount of fuel you consume and the amount of time you spend running cargo.

You know, you can easly reduce number of jumps other way: by reducing amounts of goods you are really have to transfer. Like, by creating some industry infrastructure and fill the market right on the spot. And I think this is what devs want to tell us by this change (and I hope there will be others like that in future).

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#683 - 2014-05-18 11:59:31 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
[quote=Laiannah Sahireen]
Oh and of course lose that almost respectable align time that I had before. Because JFs were clearly evading gatecamps by insta-warping.
.


... JFs are evading gatecamps, yes. they evade all forms of pvp.


Uhm ... how long have you not been playing EVE? Or checked a killboard? Or flown a JF, for that matter?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#684 - 2014-05-18 12:01:00 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
[quote=Laiannah Sahireen]
Oh and of course lose that almost respectable align time that I had before. Because JFs were clearly evading gatecamps by insta-warping.
.


... JFs are evading gatecamps, yes. they evade all forms of pvp.


Uhm ... how long have you not been playing EVE? Or checked a killboard? Or flown a JF, for that matter?


people manage to mess up flying pvp-immune ships just like people mess up using the quote button
Mag's
Azn Empire
#685 - 2014-05-18 12:05:01 UTC
Let's be clear here, the changes suck and we 'told you so' crowd agree they suck. But many many asked for them, over and over. But this in no way justifies RL threats. Just as no game action does.

Shame on you, if you think otherwise.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

TheButcherPete
Blackbase Incorporated
#686 - 2014-05-18 12:06:53 UTC
The 35 pages of "THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA" in less than 24hours should prompt you to not have this change, Fozzie.

This thread is destroying every bit of the love that the community gained has for you recently. I've never once thought of saying "Kick his ass off the devteam" but I did today. That is terrible.

Also, thanks for completely invalidating the Low-Grade Nomad set I bought.

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If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#687 - 2014-05-18 12:11:27 UTC
What's the CSM opinion?

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#688 - 2014-05-18 12:15:12 UTC
gascanu wrote:
What's the CSM opinion?



The one I saw that posted here said they'll have to bring up that the changes as they stand screw up wormholes a bit with the mass changes. While they are intended to hurt the Titan bridging of regular freighters to stop people getting around the JF nerf, they do prevent people from getting into the HS wormholes of a C5/C6.

Otherwise, I haven't seen much.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#689 - 2014-05-18 12:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Lara Divinity wrote:
stop making things worse n call it improvement

It is improvement, in fact. Improvement to integrity of nullsecs' economical and political environment. It should be another bit of incentive to start building a real infrastracture here, and to apply more effort to its protection. Not just haul down all the stuff from Jita while investing nothing you would be afraid to lose at your current region of dislocation.
Lara Divinity wrote:

the way this game is goin really dissapoints me and just will end up n me and a whole bunch of other players leaving this game

This never gets old Cool

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Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#690 - 2014-05-18 12:17:58 UTC
My god, you are on fire towards cronos fozzie..

I belive i will take upon me a new ganking hobby after this buff hits.

1 lowslot would have made a world of difference in choosing abilitys without this total makeover which will leave 90% of hisec haulers unrigged due to cost, 7% cargo fitted and the last 3 tanked, yes its a wildguess, but all in all, ganking will be very profitable from now on.
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished
#691 - 2014-05-18 12:24:46 UTC
I am amazed by the amount of tears/threats that are posted in this thread considering that freighters / jump freighters are peaceful ships :D
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#692 - 2014-05-18 12:28:14 UTC
Migui X'hyrrn wrote:
I am amazed by the amount of tears/threats that are posted in this thread considering that freighters / jump freighters are peaceful ships :D


the most vicious and explosive players have always been carebears.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Axe Coldon
#693 - 2014-05-18 12:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Axe Coldon
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
My experience with JFs is that they jump from HS to LS and then to Null without any risk whatsoever, they don't even need align time to do it, what's the trouble then, use an ordinary freighter for highsec.


You must not use a JF. It makes the transition back to high sec. To do that it jumps to low sec and then has to go thru a high sec gate like everyone else..and there it can get ganked. There is the risk. Because you warp to 0 and jump its near impossible to get you on the low sec side. They do the high sec gank thing.

In jumping out of null/npc stations there is risk though not as much as before. Certain stations have almost no zero range at undock. What they do is wait above the station with a bumping ship and bubblers (null). You undock and they bump you away from zero while the guy puts a bubble up so you can't jump and you are bumped so you can't get back in. Then drop in the killing fleet and you are dead. No it doesn't happen much but it does. Just pointing out there is risk in cyno'ing.

and sometimes jf's go into systems with no stations. with a ship 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a super is it to much to ask for a high slot to put in a cloaking module.

Eve tries to be real in a sense. but if it was real I would commission one of the major manufacturers for a bigger jf with the ability to modify it. The equivalent in game would be low med and high slots available.

I don't care so much about the freighter nerf as I do the jump freighter. When I get to high sec from null I transfer the load to a normal freighter (since the t3 battle cruisers were added to the game). So my Charon's will be fit for max agility and ehp. as long as they have a cargo capacity of a jf that is fine with me. But its insane that 10,000 years in the future they haven't figured out how to mount even 1 gun on a freighter. No modules no modifications. A big floating coffin. Well I would ask for increased jump range..hell I could think of lots of things.

It would never happen but increase the jump range to the same as a carrier. That offsets the bitter taste of nerfing some. On a long trip can save a cyno. Doesn't' save fuel or fix cargo but a 3 cyno jump is better then a 4 cyno jump.

And if you are going to nerf the core cargo hold they should be cheaper to make.

It kills me that people want the core logistics nerfed to the point they can wipe everything out and no one can function in high. Eve exists because of high sec. If there never was a High sec Eve would have died out long long ago. The brilliance of the developers of eve was having a High Low Null. You kill High you Kill EVE! And that is "I told you so"

You need a Council of Interstellar Industry and Mining. Made up of people in that profession not those that want to kill them.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#694 - 2014-05-18 12:43:35 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
My experience with JFs is that they jump from HS to LS and then to Null without any risk whatsoever, they don't even need align time to do it, what's the trouble then, use an ordinary freighter for highsec.


You must not use a JF. It makes the transition back to high sec. To do that it jumps to low sec and then has to go thru a high sec gate like everyone else..and there it can get ganked. There is the risk. Because you warp to 0 and jump its near impossible to get you on the low sec side. They do the high sec gank thing.

In jumping out of null/npc stations there is risk though not as much as before. Certain stations have almost no zero range at undock. What they do is wait above the station with a bumping ship and bubblers (null). You undock and they bump you away from zero while the guy puts a bubble up so you can't jump and you are bumped so you can't get back in. Then drop in the killing fleet and you are dead. No it doesn't happen much but it does. Just pointing out there is risk in cyno'ing.

and sometimes jf's go into systems with no stations. with a ship 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a super is it to much to ask for a high slot to put in a cloaking module.

Eve tries to be real in a sense. but if it was real I would commission one of the major manufacturers for a bigger jf with the ability to modify it. The equivalent in game would be low med and high slots available.

I don't care so much about the freighter nerf as I do the jump freighter. When I get to high sec from null I transfer the load to a normal freighter (since the t3 battle cruisers were added to the game). So my Charon's will be fit for max agility and ehp. as long as they have a cargo capacity of a jf that is fine with me. But its insane that 10,000 years in the future they haven't figured out how to mount even 1 gun on a freighter. No modules no modifications. A big floating coffin. Well I would ask for increased jump range..hell I could think of lots of things.

It would never happen but increase the jump range to the same as a carrier. That offsets the bitter taste of nerfing some. On a long trip can save a cyno. Doesn't' save fuel or fix cargo but a 3 cyno jump is better then a 4 cyno jump.

And if you are going to nerf the core cargo hold they should be cheaper to make.

It kills me that people want the core logistics nerfed to the point they can wipe everything out and no one can function in high. Eve exists because of high sec. If there never was a High sec Eve would have died out long long ago. The brilliance of the developers of eve was having a High Low Null. You kill High you Kill EVE! And that is "I told you so"

You need a Council of Interstellar Industry and Mining. Made of of people in that profession not those that want to kill them.


none of this works if you aren't absolutely awful. it's all avoidable.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#695 - 2014-05-18 12:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
I just can't believe how many people can't put aside their prejudice (which flourishes on fat lands of being accustomed to conviniences of fully supply all your needs on highsecs market like any other highsec carebear) and see in those changes what are they really are
gascanu wrote:
ll a 7 bil ship just for lol with several t1 destroiers? where is the "balance" in that? where is the well known "risk vs reward" slogan you tossing around so proud?

It is right there. Now it cost more to haul things down from highsecs, and you should think about making them on spot really seriously. By doing so you will get less transport spending and hassles ("profit"), but someone can ruin your infrastructure("risk").
gascanu wrote:

but really, this should be an "industry patch" buff and you are nefing the core of the industrial ships??? let me ask again: how out of touch are you with this game?

And now it should be clear why it IS part of industry patch too, shoudn't it?

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Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#696 - 2014-05-18 12:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
TrouserDeagle wrote:


none of this works if you aren't absolutely awful. it's all avoidable.

But many people are convinced that if you isn't able to do something in a few mouse clicks and without spending any effort on precautions and without taking some risk, than this is unbearably hard to accmoplish and should be buffed immediately.

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#697 - 2014-05-18 12:57:46 UTC
I still say the nerfs had nothing to do with the addition of rigs and the 'told you so' crowd is missing this point intentionally just to harvest more tears. Firs came the nerfs and to sell them as (semi-)boosts rigs were thrown in. Under this point of view the changes suddenly become logical.
Dave Stark
#698 - 2014-05-18 13:03:58 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
I still say the nerfs had nothing to do with the addition of rigs and the 'told you so' crowd is missing this point intentionally just to harvest more tears. Firs came the nerfs and to sell them as (semi-)boosts rigs were thrown in. Under this point of view the changes suddenly become logical.


if they wanted to nerf freighters they would have just nerfed them. they didn't need to "sell it" by adding rigs.
Axe Coldon
#699 - 2014-05-18 13:04:40 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:
My experience with JFs is that they jump from HS to LS and then to Null without any risk whatsoever, they don't even need align time to do it, what's the trouble then, use an ordinary freighter for highsec.


You must not use a JF. It makes the transition back to high sec. To do that it jumps to low sec and then has to go thru a high sec gate like everyone else..and there it can get ganked. There is the risk. Because you warp to 0 and jump its near impossible to get you on the low sec side. They do the high sec gank thing.

In jumping out of null/npc stations there is risk though not as much as before. Certain stations have almost no zero range at undock. What they do is wait above the station with a bumping ship and bubblers (null). You undock and they bump you away from zero while the guy puts a bubble up so you can't jump and you are bumped so you can't get back in. Then drop in the killing fleet and you are dead. No it doesn't happen much but it does. Just pointing out there is risk in cyno'ing.

and sometimes jf's go into systems with no stations. with a ship 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a super is it to much to ask for a high slot to put in a cloaking module.

Eve tries to be real in a sense. but if it was real I would commission one of the major manufacturers for a bigger jf with the ability to modify it. The equivalent in game would be low med and high slots available.

I don't care so much about the freighter nerf as I do the jump freighter. When I get to high sec from null I transfer the load to a normal freighter (since the t3 battle cruisers were added to the game). So my Charon's will be fit for max agility and ehp. as long as they have a cargo capacity of a jf that is fine with me. But its insane that 10,000 years in the future they haven't figured out how to mount even 1 gun on a freighter. No modules no modifications. A big floating coffin. Well I would ask for increased jump range..hell I could think of lots of things.

It would never happen but increase the jump range to the same as a carrier. That offsets the bitter taste of nerfing some. On a long trip can save a cyno. Doesn't' save fuel or fix cargo but a 3 cyno jump is better then a 4 cyno jump.

And if you are going to nerf the core cargo hold they should be cheaper to make.

It kills me that people want the core logistics nerfed to the point they can wipe everything out and no one can function in high. Eve exists because of high sec. If there never was a High sec Eve would have died out long long ago. The brilliance of the developers of eve was having a High Low Null. You kill High you Kill EVE! And that is "I told you so"

You need a Council of Interstellar Industry and Mining. Made of of people in that profession not those that want to kill them.


none of this works if you aren't absolutely awful. it's all avoidable.


Not true. IF they lay in wait..put you on contact and all your alts and are out to get you..the high sec gank will happen. If someone is bound and determined to kill your jf in high there is nothing you can do. Yes dying in null is avoidable. I never undock without eye's on the station. but in high..they logoff at the gate and use alts to spot you.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#700 - 2014-05-18 13:07:10 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:


Not true. IF they lay in wait..put you on contact and all your alts and are out to get you..the high sec gank will happen. If someone is bound and determined to kill your jf in high there is nothing you can do. Yes dying in null is avoidable. I never undock without eye's on the station. but in high..they logoff at the gate and use alts to spot you.


What if the... unthinkable happened? You know, like... The JF jumped out of highsec when he started getting bumped because of these vicious people?
If you always have an exit cyno ready in highsec I can guarantee you it is almost 99 % impossible to get ganked. The only thing I could remotely think about is 20 insta-locking tornados and even THAT is extremely rare. You'll need like 10 b+ of cargo or made the wrong people really mad.