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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

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Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#161 - 2014-05-19 05:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrthiis
With relevant skills to 5 ,T2 rigs +1 nano t2 + max cargo with available low slots .

PROWLER:---10214m3 align time 4.84
VIATOR:--------10534m3 align time 4.78
PRORATOR:--10819m3 align time 4.95
CRANE:----------9868m3 align time 5.07

Tell me if i messed up !!!
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2014-05-19 06:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Meandering Milieu
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Meandering Milieu wrote:


Please make BRs cargo immune to customs scans for smuggling. Make smuggling an actual aspect of gameplay, with maybe skills for it or something if not an unscannable cargo bay.

I think boosters need reworked as a whole, but that is another thread.


Instead of an immunity, how about something like cycle times on all scanners (including NPC) take xx% longer. It would prevent people from just autopiloting drugs around, and make it so people with level 5 transport ship skill, with maybe some nano's or something able to transport illegal goods around if they are paying attention.



I'm fine with this. Any skills, special modules for blockade runners, you name it, would make it desirable. Paired with a tweak/rework of boosters, with new content for boosters, would be wonderful.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2014-05-19 06:38:38 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely.

How is it a useful tool when this is already completely covered by the fact that these ships have covert ops cloaks?
Why does it matter that I can't be cargo scanned if they can't even target me?


I'm falling into the Goon conspiracy trap, agreeing that the unscannable cargo hold does not bode well for a future of players performing the capture & kill role for NPC customs. If the NPC customs can't scan the cargo and flag the ship as carrying contraband, how are the players supposed to enforce a blockade on drugs in hi sec? If I'm flying a cargo of drugs in what is essentially an un-catchable ship, am I really smuggling?

Or you could just get rid of the contraband system entirely. Nothing of value will be lost.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Luscius Uta
#164 - 2014-05-19 07:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Luscius Uta
This is so refreshing after seeing the Freighters thread Big smile
Two high slots, so they can fit both Covops cloak and Covert Cyno? Great!
Big enough cargo to fit a packaged cruiser? Great!
Tanking bonus gone? Great!
I also would welcome the possibility to make them immune to NPC cargo scanning. Smuggling should be a viable profession in EVE.
I'm only baffled by the introduction of full T2 resists. All T2 ships that can fit Covert ops cloak have weaker resists than their combat counterparts. Why the inconsistency?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Arnpior
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#165 - 2014-05-19 09:31:30 UTC

All the 'remove the immune to scanning' cries are making me laugh.

The first thing I noticed is that most of the posts are from corps that are known to gank blockade runners. I figured no one would take these obvious troll posts seriously. But somehow the terrible joke grew into many posts.

The only people that benefit from removing immunity to cargo scanning are the gankers. Currently there is no way to know if that BR is full up with officer mods or used minmitarr shuttles. The first thing a ganker does is calculate the isk lost by the suicide to the isk gained/destroyed in the gank. If the BR is empty.... they lose the isk war so they do not gank. If its full.... POP.

Also the scanning of blockade runners almost always happens when undocking from a major trade hub like JITA or AMARR, with server lag, the crowd of ships etc there is lots of time to be scanned before you warp to your safe undock bookmark. The cloak does not help at all in this situation. You also decloak when you arrive at a gate.... again vulnerable to insta lock scanners.

Right now BR cannot be specifically targetted. The gankers have to take a chance meaning sometimes they will lose the isk war... while others they might win. Remove scanning immunity and their job will be far easier, they'll never have to take a chance again..... they will know if the target is worth suiciding or not.

Also..... why is my prowler getting an agility nerf ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#166 - 2014-05-19 09:41:20 UTC
Arnpior wrote:

All the 'remove the immune to scanning' cries are making me laugh.

The first thing I noticed is that most of the posts are from corps that are known to gank blockade runners. I figured no one would take these obvious troll posts seriously. But somehow the terrible joke grew into many posts.

The only people that benefit from removing immunity to cargo scanning are the gankers. Currently there is no way to know if that BR is full up with officer mods or used minmitarr shuttles. The first thing a ganker does is calculate the isk lost by the suicide to the isk gained/destroyed in the gank. If the BR is empty.... they lose the isk war so they do not gank. If its full.... POP.

Also the scanning of blockade runners almost always happens when undocking from a major trade hub like JITA or AMARR, with server lag, the crowd of ships etc there is lots of time to be scanned before you warp to your safe undock bookmark. The cloak does not help at all in this situation. You also decloak when you arrive at a gate.... again vulnerable to insta lock scanners.

Right now BR cannot be specifically targetted. The gankers have to take a chance meaning sometimes they will lose the isk war... while others they might win. Remove scanning immunity and their job will be far easier, they'll never have to take a chance again..... they will know if the target is worth suiciding or not.

Also..... why is my prowler getting an agility nerf ?


I warp the second I undock to an undock safe and cloak, it is impossible to get a scan. When docking I warp to a bookmark I have either inside or right next to the station which again, makes it impossible to get a scan.

Flown right a blocade runner cannot be locked at all so having a scan immunity just doesnt make any sense, you cant even lock it to scan in the first place. It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#167 - 2014-05-19 09:48:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.

So basically you want to make it easier to AFK autopilot with an empty hold. How about you use a interceptor or a Leopard for that, hmm?
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#168 - 2014-05-19 09:52:04 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.

So basically you want to make it easier to AFK autopilot with an empty hold. How about you use a interceptor or a Leopard for that, hmm?


Because interceptors and Leopards can't carry BRs in their cargoholds. Straight
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#169 - 2014-05-19 09:52:21 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:

So basically you want to make it easier to AFK autopilot with an empty hold. How about you use a interceptor or a Leopard for that, hmm?


How would that get my blocade runner to where I want it?

No, I dont want it gone just for that. I want it gone because, frankly, I think that people who fly these ships well should be rewarded by having an unscannable, uncatchable ship for shipping things while bad pilots should be able to be scanned and pirated.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#170 - 2014-05-19 09:59:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:

So basically you want to make it easier to AFK autopilot with an empty hold. How about you use a interceptor or a Leopard for that, hmm?


How would that get my blocade runner to where I want it?

No, I dont want it gone just for that. I want it gone because, frankly, I think that people who fly these ships well should be rewarded by having an unscannable, uncatchable ship for shipping things while bad pilots should be able to be scanned and pirated.


Forget it. The scan immunity is a differentiator for this ship that makes gank attempts a real gamble and gives haulers much needed semi-safety. There is no need to buff ganking further.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#171 - 2014-05-19 10:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Yongtau Naskingar
baltec1 wrote:
It puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.


baltec1 wrote:
No, I dont want it gone just for that. I want it gone because, frankly, I think that people who fly these ships well should be rewarded by having an unscannable, uncatchable ship for shipping things while bad pilots should be able to be scanned and pirated.


So... first you say that it puts people who autopilot on empty are at greater risk. And now you say that people who don't fly a ship well should be at greater risk. Surely people who autopilot don't "fly it well", and therefore are justified in needing to take the bigger risk.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#172 - 2014-05-19 10:03:51 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
t puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.


baltec1 wrote:
No, I dont want it gone just for that. I want it gone because, frankly, I think that people who fly these ships well should be rewarded by having an unscannable, uncatchable ship for shipping things while bad pilots should be able to be scanned and pirated.


So... first you say that it puts people who autopilot on empty are at greater risk. And now you say that people who don't fly a ship well [i]should be at greater risk. Surely people who autopilot don't "fly it well", and therefore are justified in needing to take the bigger risk.


They are flying empty so the risk is almost non existent.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#173 - 2014-05-19 10:07:21 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Forget it. The scan immunity is a differentiator for this ship that makes gank attempts a real gamble and gives haulers much needed semi-safety. There is no need to buff ganking further.


The fact that it aligns like a frigates, warps like an intercepter and comes with a cov ops cloak is more than enough. Having cargo scan immunity on top of all of that just makes no sense and takes away the reward for flying these ships well.

This isnt a buff to ganking because any blockade runner worth its salt would be uncatchable and unscannable anyway.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#174 - 2014-05-19 10:07:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
They are flying empty so the risk is almost non existent.

Then, since they are not flying it well, they should get more risk. According to your posts.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2014-05-19 10:09:27 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
They are flying empty so the risk is almost non existent.

Then, since they are not flying it well, they should get more risk. According to your posts.


No, they are empty, there is near no risk of being ganked. Not flying it well would be autopiloting it with a bay full of sisters probes.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#176 - 2014-05-19 10:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Yongtau Naskingar
baltec1 wrote:
No, they are empty, there is near no risk of being ganked. Not flying it well would be autopiloting it with a bay full of sisters probes.

So autopiloting an empty ship (100M hull alone) is "flying it well" and "shouldn't get you ganked." That's an odd position for a goon.

Edit: Who on earth AP a BR with a full hold? If they see you AP-ing, don't they just assume you're empty anyhow? I don't really know, I don't expect CCP to guard me while AFK.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#177 - 2014-05-19 10:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Forget it. The scan immunity is a differentiator for this ship that makes gank attempts a real gamble and gives haulers much needed semi-safety. There is no need to buff ganking further.


The fact that it aligns like a frigates, warps like an intercepter and comes with a cov ops cloak is more than enough. Having cargo scan immunity on top of all of that just makes no sense and takes away the reward for flying these ships well.

This isnt a buff to ganking because any blockade runner worth its salt would be uncatchable and unscannable anyway.


It makes all the sense as it is a unique feature of this ship, that suits the role and lets it stand out from the crowd. The alignment and 6 AU warp speed (which is nowhere near that of a ceptor) is not enough of a unique feature to achieve that. And yes, it is a buff to ganking, simply because of the fact that it is possible to scan the ship and find out whether it is worthwhile to attack or not. This risk might be minuscule, but it is there and it is unnecessary to be there. Ganking these ships, even if flown badly (in your opinion) (what kind of capacity do you have, by the way, to decide whether AP is bad piloting or not?), is supposed to be a gamble and this gamble can only exist because of the scan immunity. If this gamble is gone, ganking is buffed. Simple.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2014-05-19 10:18:17 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
No, they are empty, there is near no risk of being ganked. Not flying it well would be autopiloting it with a bay full of sisters probes.

So autopiloting an empty ship (100M hull alone) is "flying it well" and "shouldn't get you ganked." That's an odd position for a goon.


A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#179 - 2014-05-19 10:22:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers.

But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good Idea™ and should not get you in trouble.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#180 - 2014-05-19 10:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
baltec1 wrote:
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
No, they are empty, there is near no risk of being ganked. Not flying it well would be autopiloting it with a bay full of sisters probes.

So autopiloting an empty ship (100M hull alone) is "flying it well" and "shouldn't get you ganked." That's an odd position for a goon.


A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers.


Aren't you contradicting yourself there, considering all the ganked freighters, which are empty or only carry low value cargo? Roll a sizable number of gankers don't gank for profit, they just gank because of the gank.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.