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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

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Juliandelphki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#441 - 2014-05-24 18:25:09 UTC
Hafwolf wrote:
Juliandelphki wrote:
Hafwolf wrote:
Simple idea make the anti cargo scanning into a module that can be fitted.



If this is done then like the other person needs to be a rig or a passive module. it means nothing on auto pilot if it's active. Additionally if the pilot is at the controls they'll be going gate to gate with cloak so they're already immune to scanning, outside the natural ability currently being discussed.


What I was reading was that people where wanting a way to shut that feature off when auto piloting in high sec with there blockade runners. Reason I suggested a module was if you want that feature you can have it. If you don't then don't fit the module. Also it would be nice if you could fit that on freighters or other types of ships. if you want some privacy of what you are hauling. Yes most people flying blockade runners usually warp and cloak with cargo. So that particular ship really does not need that except for transporting boosters to jita from concord. Yes it would have to be a passive module so that people can autopilot with it.



Don't get me wrong i have no problem with your proposal. I just wanted to add the caveat that it should be a passive module. Then further elaborated why it should be. From what I've seen if you don't spelling thing out in detail CCP goes of half cocked and messes things up.

It's better to explain yourself to 12 then to be carried by 6. It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2014-05-24 20:14:35 UTC
If they make it a module you can fit to ANYTHING, then it has to be active.

If you aren't there to turn it on, then you don't deserve it's protection.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#443 - 2014-05-24 21:47:23 UTC
Hey guys I have this really great idea for blockade runners.

It's called "scan immunity when you want it" and like it says it consists of getting scan immunity from a module that you activate.
That way those who don't want it or are too lazy to activate it don't get it, and those who do want it can get it every single time.
To save developer coding time we'll use a module that has this exact same effect plus some other perks, called the Covert Ops Cloaking Device II.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#444 - 2014-05-24 21:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Seriously all this talk about "wahhh wahhhh zero risk to gankers" is ******* stupid because not only is it wrong, it misses the entire point.

The entire point being you don't ******* need scan immunity because you can haul **** around in it with zero risk, scan immunity or not.

You don't get to ***** about gankers having zero risk (which is wrong anyway) when prior to scan immunity you had (and still have) every tool you need to make any risk to you go away. And guess what? Nobody is asking to have that taken from you. All we're asking is that your risk actually have something to do with how you fly your ship, not a ******** always-on role bonus.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Juliandelphki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#445 - 2014-05-25 01:50:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Seriously all this talk about "wahhh wahhhh zero risk to gankers" is ******* stupid because not only is it wrong, it misses the entire point.

The entire point being you don't ******* need scan immunity because you can haul **** around in it with zero risk, scan immunity or not.

You don't get to ***** about gankers having zero risk (which is wrong anyway) when prior to scan immunity you had (and still have) every tool you need to make any risk to you go away. And guess what? Nobody is asking to have that taken from you. All we're asking is that your risk actually have something to do with how you fly your ship, not a ******** always-on role bonus.



ah yet another one of the goon gankers. Oh don't let us undercut your income. Scan invulnerability was something haulers used to have but lost because of factions like yours. Now that we were able to get it back, we're going to fight to keep it.

And as much as you want to cuss about it, ganking does have nearly 0 liability/risk outside of the 50% drop. everything else is beyond that is moot.

It's better to explain yourself to 12 then to be carried by 6. It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2014-05-25 02:19:36 UTC
Juliandelphki wrote:
ah yet another one of the goon gankers. Oh don't let us undercut your income. Scan invulnerability was something haulers used to have but lost because of factions like yours. Now that we were able to get it back, we're going to fight to keep it.

You do get to keep it if they take away the role bonus, you just have to turn it on.
That's what you're whining about, the fact that you would have to turn it on upsets you.

Juliandelphki wrote:
And as much as you want to cuss about it, ganking does have nearly 0 liability/risk outside of the 50% drop. everything else is beyond that is moot.

You can't just ignore consequences and pretend they don't exist. Security status is also a consequence of ganking, for example.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Juliandelphki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#447 - 2014-05-25 06:24:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Juliandelphki wrote:
ah yet another one of the goon gankers. Oh don't let us undercut your income. Scan invulnerability was something haulers used to have but lost because of factions like yours. Now that we were able to get it back, we're going to fight to keep it.

You do get to keep it if they take away the role bonus, you just have to turn it on.
That's what you're whining about, the fact that you would have to turn it on upsets you.

Juliandelphki wrote:
And as much as you want to cuss about it, ganking does have nearly 0 liability/risk outside of the 50% drop. everything else is beyond that is moot.

You can't just ignore consequences and pretend they don't exist. Security status is also a consequence of ganking, for example.



No the point of this thread is they want to take it away. Period! The alternative brought up was a module/rig. If module it should be PASSIVE. The whole benefit to the BR in high sec is without having to do anything you have the scan immunity. The passive module retains that, if you have the skills to use it. Making it an active modules does nothing for hauling player. For them to use they must be at the controls directing the movements of their ship. These ships are already immune to your ganking as the player just cloaks from gate to gate. The only BR that is going to get ganked is the auto pilot flyer. This now gives you guys the upper hand while completely shafting the hauling community.

I don't know have many times I have to explain it, your Security status is of no consequence. Else the Marmite and friends in Aufay would not be able to remain in business. But with insta undock ability there's nothing to be afraid of, of having -10.0 sec status. You won't be shot by the station. Unless you're stupid enough to seet at your book mark for 60 to 90 seconds for concord to show up and blow you out of the sky, you're free to warp to the gate and then shoot your auto piloting pilot.


Let's just put it this way. 99% of your targets are going to be AP pilots in ships that can be alpha'd by your attack BC. A few others will be the freighter/JF your neut Mach/Fleet Typhoon bumps until a 20 to 30 man fleet is ready to gank it. An the last few will be those show are too slow to get off a gate before you gank them (AP or piloted).

Tell ya what. Let's just cut out all this bickering from all the groups. Final motion. Auto Piloting now goes Gate to Gate, no 15 KM slow boat. After all that's what everyone's been asking for, for years.

It's better to explain yourself to 12 then to be carried by 6. It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#448 - 2014-05-25 16:24:27 UTC
Juliandelphki wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Juliandelphki wrote:
ah yet another one of the goon gankers. Oh don't let us undercut your income. Scan invulnerability was something haulers used to have but lost because of factions like yours. Now that we were able to get it back, we're going to fight to keep it.

You do get to keep it if they take away the role bonus, you just have to turn it on.
That's what you're whining about, the fact that you would have to turn it on upsets you.

Juliandelphki wrote:
And as much as you want to cuss about it, ganking does have nearly 0 liability/risk outside of the 50% drop. everything else is beyond that is moot.

You can't just ignore consequences and pretend they don't exist. Security status is also a consequence of ganking, for example.



No the point of this thread is they want to take it away. Period!


You have the cov ops cloak, you will still be unscannable.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#449 - 2014-05-25 16:31:44 UTC
Juliandelphki wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rena'Thras wrote:


What is the risk to the ganker? = VERY LITTLE



Losing the target while you scan/look at the scan results. = false. If they're on AP (only way to get em) you have several minutes to get scan before they jump out of system. Besides you guys all use neut scanners 1-3 systems ahead.

missing tackle on the target. = false, you alpha your targets no tackle require.

failing to kill the target. = true, this is possible but very unlikely. I can't think of anyone who has failed to kill an AP runner.

open to attack from everyone. = true, only attackable during the attack itself and the 15 mins after. Which mean nothing to the ganker. As serious gankers have insta undocks from their station they're safe until they land on field to shoot their target. Afterwards it's nearly impossable to catch a pod in high sec.

someone stealing the cargo. = true, this is possible. I have only seen stealers in work 5 times in 5 years.

someone attacking your own transport. = good get a taste of your own medicine.

open to attack from the victim. = this only applies if you stay in system to continue ganking. This still fall under the nearly invulnerable method of travel in system mentioned above.

victim may sell your kill right which may be taken up at any time for several months. = Falsification. The Kill rights apply for 6 weeks. not several months. Besides that doesn't stop people from ganking. Its called insta undock bookmark. From there you go onto grid. shoot. dock up. very little time/chance to get you. Only at the gate which anyone can do anytime you're trying to gank. But is the same as the answer directly above and the one further up. this doe not affect the ganker.

50% chance on every item to not drop. = hmm. Well that means 50% change to gain the items. wash, no need to put this up.

target is packing ecm = ECM is highly unlikely to work on a none ECM specific ship. Additionally if the pilot is on AP they won't be there to ECM. Lastly since most ganks go down in 1 shot ECM is invalid because the target only has about .5 seconds to realize they're targeted, target back and apply ecm. By then they're already in a pod.

target has an escort.= possible. Can't say i've ever seen this happen, but it's still a moot point. The escort again cannot do anything to prevent the ship from being 1 shotted. They can only retaliate once the BR is popped.

On top of that we also get;

Sec status loss. = meant nothing before. Means even less now that you can use tags to get sec standing back up. As most gankes are spec'd just for that they're not the main toon on an account.

15min downtime where concord will blow up any ship you enter. = does not apply. I've since gankers go right back out onto the field to perform another gank immediately. The bookmarks make it possible.


Our ship blown up. = natually, hence suicide gank. This is natrually implied in the act itself so why put this up? obviously since losing the ship to concord (who don't pod) is a part of doing business this is already accounted for in your finacing the operation.

Past a point, are open to attack from anyone all the time. Most gankers are always at -10.


Ganking has enough risk. Now, tell me why you think you need this safety net for blockade runners to protect you from your mistakes when ganking ( the only risk you face in highsec) has zero room for mistakes and bad piloting?



To surmise, Ganking has very LITTLE risk. The biggest risk is little to no drop value on your target. Seein the potenetial rewards, this risk is minimal. Tell ya what. let's compromise and go old school. You can get your blockade Runner scann back but can's are now immune (again).


Im sorry but no. All of those things happen, you clearly are not a ganker and know nothing about it given you out of the box carebear views.

Shall we now look at the risks a well flown blocade runner in high sec faces?

None.
Redeye Corpholder
Red Eye Mining and Hauling
#450 - 2014-05-25 20:54:09 UTC
i just want a pirate faction blockade runner..
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#451 - 2014-05-26 02:08:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Hey guys I have this really great idea for blockade runners.

It's called "scan immunity when you want it" and like it says it consists of getting scan immunity from a module that you activate.
That way those who don't want it or are too lazy to activate it don't get it, and those who do want it can get it every single time.
To save developer coding time we'll use a module that has this exact same effect plus some other perks, called the Covert Ops Cloaking Device II.


Please Goon, enlightening me further. How does one go about activating their cloaking device on undock in Jita, or anywhere else for that matter?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#452 - 2014-05-26 02:28:01 UTC
Rapscallion Jones wrote:
Please Goon, enlightening me further. How does one go about activating their cloaking device on undock in Jita, or anywhere else for that matter?

You don't, but there's this nifty thing called a bookmark that lets you warp off the undock instantly.

There are answers for everything, you're just not willing to accept that you have to put in a bit of work for your own safety.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#453 - 2014-05-26 02:42:31 UTC
Which I might add I've used many times when hauling expensive cargo, so don't tell me that it doesn't work.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#454 - 2014-05-26 05:08:58 UTC
Honnestly a rig would be nice something like this :

-Electronics Superiority Rigs > scanner system blocker > 50 rigging point give "immune to player cargo scan " to any ships affected by Transport ship skill .
T2 version :75 rigging point give "immune to player and NPC cargo scan" to any ship affected by Transport ship skill .

For freighter now that rigs has been removed we could ask for a mod with t1 and t2 version ,mimicking the rig and affected by "racial" freighter skill .Roll

It would help mitigate "code" in HS , and this is a solution jester didn't envisaged in his blog .
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#455 - 2014-05-26 05:55:48 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
Honnestly a rig would be nice something like this :

-Electronics Superiority Rigs > scanner system blocker > 50 rigging point give "immune to player cargo scan " to any ships affected by Transport ship skill .
T2 version :75 rigging point give "immune to player and NPC cargo scan" to any ship affected by Transport ship skill .

For freighter now that rigs has been removed we could ask for a mod with t1 and t2 version ,mimicking the rig and affected by "racial" freighter skill .Roll

It would help mitigate "code" in HS , and this is a solution jester didn't envisaged in his blog .



lol are you seriously asking for scan immunity for freighters? get out
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#456 - 2014-05-26 06:46:04 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
Honnestly a rig would be nice something like this :

-Electronics Superiority Rigs > scanner system blocker > 50 rigging point give "immune to player cargo scan " to any ships affected by Transport ship skill .
T2 version :75 rigging point give "immune to player and NPC cargo scan" to any ship affected by Transport ship skill .

For freighter now that rigs has been removed we could ask for a mod with t1 and t2 version ,mimicking the rig and affected by "racial" freighter skill .Roll

It would help mitigate "code" in HS , and this is a solution jester didn't envisaged in his blog .



lol are you seriously asking for scan immunity for freighters? get out


WHy not ? Not so long ago ,people who were asking for rigs and/or modules on freighter were laughed atRoll look now what was introduced a few days ago...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#457 - 2014-05-26 07:53:05 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
Honnestly a rig would be nice something like this :

-Electronics Superiority Rigs > scanner system blocker > 50 rigging point give "immune to player cargo scan " to any ships affected by Transport ship skill .
T2 version :75 rigging point give "immune to player and NPC cargo scan" to any ship affected by Transport ship skill .

For freighter now that rigs has been removed we could ask for a mod with t1 and t2 version ,mimicking the rig and affected by "racial" freighter skill .Roll

It would help mitigate "code" in HS , and this is a solution jester didn't envisaged in his blog .

I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain why this is a stupid idea.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#458 - 2014-05-26 09:44:01 UTC
Vlad Draculesti wrote:
I still think they should be immune to bubbles.

We have the "technology" to put that on a t3 cruiser and an interceptor but not the ship whose soul purpose is running blockades?

What harm would it really do? If anything it would allow small groups to be able to more reliably operate in 0.0 where now they don't bother.

What good is it to ninja mine in the new t2 mining frig if I have no way of hauling the materials out of 0.0?


Agree on that

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#459 - 2014-05-26 11:38:27 UTC
I'm sure it's been mentioned already and the "Click to 1st Dev post" took me to Post #1 (*facepalm*) so:

Anyone flying a BR is cloaking, if you're not then you're failing. I think shifting the Scan Immunity to the DST from the BR would be a better move as it's a redundant bonus on a ship that should be cloaking as soon as it's moving.

DST's would become a wonderbox of risk = reward where it could be carrying billions or it could be empty...if you can pop it OFC.

I 'd love to know the numbers on how many BR's and DST's are used currently.

Flame on.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#460 - 2014-05-26 11:38:43 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:


WHy not ? Not so long ago ,people who were asking for rigs and/or modules on freighter were laughed atRoll look now what was introduced a few days ago...


It would effectively remove an entire profession.