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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

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Arnpior
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2014-05-19 10:29:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
so having a scan immunity just doesnt make any sense, you cant even lock it to scan in the first place. It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.



LOL Could you be more obvious ? Scan immunity makes fantastic sense. It means a ganker has to gamble period. There is zero risk added to AFK Autopilot blockade runners. (And seriously... what moron puts his BR on autopilot...)

A blockade runner is a purpose built ship, meant to avoid -gasp- pirates and blockades. part of evading a pirate is speed and agility... the other part is stealth/camoflage ie: Cant scan cargo.... Hrmmm.... is this a viable target or not ? Dont know.... then you take a chance or you skip it.

Removing cargo scan ability means gankers no loger have to roll the dice.... they now know if a ship is viable target or not. This doesnt mean less BRs will be popped.... rather it would mean only the valuable BRs would be popped and empty ones would be skipped. Thus the isk war scales would slide in favor of the gankers.

Leave immunity scanning... and they have to gamble and sometimes they will loose the roll and pop an empty ship for their efforts losing more than they gain on the killboard.

Because THAT is what this issue is truely about.... the isk wars on your killboards.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#182 - 2014-05-19 10:30:12 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Forget it. The scan immunity is a differentiator for this ship that makes gank attempts a real gamble and gives haulers much needed semi-safety. There is no need to buff ganking further.


The fact that it aligns like a frigates, warps like an intercepter and comes with a cov ops cloak is more than enough. Having cargo scan immunity on top of all of that just makes no sense and takes away the reward for flying these ships well.

This isnt a buff to ganking because any blockade runner worth its salt would be uncatchable and unscannable anyway.


It makes all the sense as it is a unique feature of this ship, that suits the role and lets it stand out from the crowd. The alignment and 6 AU warp speed (which is nowhere near that of a ceptor) is not enough of a unique feature to achieve that. And yes, it is a buff to ganking, simply because of the fact that it is possible to scan the ship and find out whether it is worthwhile to attack or not. This risk might be minuscule, but it is there and it is unnecessary to be there. Ganking these ships, even if flown badly (in your opinion) (what kind of capacity do you have, by the way, to decide whether AP is bad piloting or not?), is supposed to be a gamble and this gamble can only exist because of the scan immunity. If this gamble is gone, ganking is buffed. Simple.


My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.

Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#183 - 2014-05-19 10:33:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Aren't you contradicting yourself there, considering all the ganked freighters, which are empty or only carry low value cargo? Roll a sizable number of gankers don't gank for profit, they just gank because of the gank.


This is a myth. That vast vast bulk are purely for profit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#184 - 2014-05-19 10:34:20 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers.

But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good Idea™ and should not get you in trouble.


Why should it?
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#185 - 2014-05-19 10:37:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.

But you said the scanning immunity is a downside for empty BRs, so not having it would be a safety net for them. And I'd say autopiloting a 100M ship designed for high collateral cargo is pretty stupid. So by removing it, CCP would provide a safetynet for bad pilots.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#186 - 2014-05-19 10:37:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers.

But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good Idea™ and should not get you in trouble.


Why should it?

I don't know? All that is quoting from YOUR posts, not mine. I'd say anybody who autopilots knows the risk involved.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2014-05-19 10:39:36 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:

I don't know? All that is quoting from YOUR posts, not mine. I'd say anybody who autopilots knows the risk involved.


Given that I have never been attacked when on autopilot in any ship I will say the risk is very very low.
Arnpior
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#188 - 2014-05-19 10:40:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.
....
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.



WUT ? Greater risk...... or safety net ? Clearly you are contradicting yourself.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#189 - 2014-05-19 10:40:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.

Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.


Mine goes 6 AU and has rigs for faster align time. And one with cargo rigs for max cargo, obviously. What is bad piloting with these? And why are people bad pilots when they use ingame mechanics for moving around? I ask you again: Who are you to decide what is bad and what not?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#190 - 2014-05-19 10:40:52 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.

But you said the scanning immunity is a downside for empty BRs, so not having it would be a safety net for them. And I'd say autopiloting a 100M ship designed for high collateral cargo is pretty stupid. So by removing it, CCP would provide a safetynet for bad pilots.


Dont try to twist my words. It wont work and will only make you look daft.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#191 - 2014-05-19 10:43:01 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.

Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.


Mine goes 6 AU and has rigs for faster align time. And one with cargo rigs for max cargo, obviously. What is bad piloting with these? And why are people bad pilots when they use ingame mechanics for moving around? I ask you again: Who are you to decide what is bad and what not?


A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#192 - 2014-05-19 10:45:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.

So then the scanning immunity is not a downside, and we should leave it on.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2014-05-19 10:46:01 UTC
Arnpior wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.
....
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.



WUT ? Greater risk...... or safety net ? Clearly you are contradicting yourself.


Please learn the difference between an empty blackade runner being scanned and a full blockade runner being scanned.


There is no contradiction, just you trying to wriggle out of an impossible position you find yourself in. You are effectively insisting that bad pilots should be protected while moving high value items.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#194 - 2014-05-19 10:46:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.


You are evading my question.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#195 - 2014-05-19 10:48:44 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
You are evading my question.

He's evading a lot of questions. Doing some questionable selective quoting too. You'd almost think he's up to something.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#196 - 2014-05-19 10:49:32 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.

So then the scanning immunity is not a downside, and we should leave it on.


The scanning immunity is entirely pointless.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#197 - 2014-05-19 10:53:40 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.


You are evading my question.


You asked what a bad pilot was, I just provided you with a bad pilot.

Now, let me ask you, why do you feel that bad pilots should be protected from "evil gankers" scanning them when they are flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well?
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#198 - 2014-05-19 10:54:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The scanning immunity is entirely pointless.

If it is entirely pointless, why did you spend an hour of your live arguing against it? There's a tons of things that are pointless in Eve, are you going to fill threads about all of them?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#199 - 2014-05-19 10:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
baltec1 wrote:
Arnpior wrote:

All the 'remove the immune to scanning' cries are making me laugh.

The first thing I noticed is that most of the posts are from corps that are known to gank blockade runners. I figured no one would take these obvious troll posts seriously. But somehow the terrible joke grew into many posts.

The only people that benefit from removing immunity to cargo scanning are the gankers. Currently there is no way to know if that BR is full up with officer mods or used minmitarr shuttles. The first thing a ganker does is calculate the isk lost by the suicide to the isk gained/destroyed in the gank. If the BR is empty.... they lose the isk war so they do not gank. If its full.... POP.

Also the scanning of blockade runners almost always happens when undocking from a major trade hub like JITA or AMARR, with server lag, the crowd of ships etc there is lots of time to be scanned before you warp to your safe undock bookmark. The cloak does not help at all in this situation. You also decloak when you arrive at a gate.... again vulnerable to insta lock scanners.

Right now BR cannot be specifically targetted. The gankers have to take a chance meaning sometimes they will lose the isk war... while others they might win. Remove scanning immunity and their job will be far easier, they'll never have to take a chance again..... they will know if the target is worth suiciding or not.

Also..... why is my prowler getting an agility nerf ?


I warp the second I undock to an undock safe and cloak, it is impossible to get a scan. When docking I warp to a bookmark I have either inside or right next to the station which again, makes it impossible to get a scan.

Flown right a blocade runner cannot be locked at all so having a scan immunity just doesnt make any sense, you cant even lock it to scan in the first place. It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.

Baltec is correct. The way I fly my BR no one can ever get a lock on me. These ships should never be autopiloted, so the scanning immunity is pretty useless on them. It would be much better on the DST.

Edit - also as pointed out, if you are running an empty blockade runner, the scan immunity could actually be a downside as some suicide gankers may take a gamble and suicide you. personally I never AP a BR though as they warp an align almost as fast as a shuttle so there is really no need.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#200 - 2014-05-19 11:00:22 UTC
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The scanning immunity is entirely pointless.

If it is entirely pointless, why did you spend an hour of your live arguing against it? There's a tons of things that are pointless in Eve, are you going to fill threads about all of them?


I am against it because it removes a lot of the negative impact of flying a blockade runner badly.