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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#561 - 2014-05-13 22:23:01 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

1400 dps of any damage type and the ability to disengage any time it wants wasn't enough for you??

How's that? Sure I scram you, you can't escape.. that doesn't mean you won't scram me too..

And for Torps you aren't exactly going to be a long way away from your target.. even with the scram bonus.. cause of the short torp range..

Change to Cruise and low it's doing less DPS than almost any other pirate ship..


Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.

Doesn't change that it has lower DPS than any of the others

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Rajeet Achmar
Rajeet Achmar Corporation
#562 - 2014-05-13 22:34:44 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.


And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#563 - 2014-05-13 22:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:



=======================================================================================

GARMUR

Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 32

=======================================================================================

ORTHRUS

Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 21
Signature radius: 120

=======================================================================================

BARGHEST

Caldari Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers
Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 370

=======================================================================================

Think about it please.

Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes!
Welcomed? Hell Yes!

If any of these bonuses are OP feel free to adjust them but reliance on rigs is hereby gone and it allows you to curb it once you introduce modules that improve missile damage application.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#564 - 2014-05-13 22:40:32 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rajeet Achmar wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
I honestly don't understand why people are so concerned about the cruiser. It's the same DPS and range as a Cerberus. Is a scram bonus and being somewhat faster that much better than the sig bonus, T2 resists, and non-****** capacitor? The Cerb is nowhere near OP, neither is this.


This, everyone is freaking out so hard, its quite fun to watch.


I've never seen a 1000dps Cerberus...


Both the Cerb and the Orthrus have 10 effective launchers, so whatever DPS the Orthrus can do, so can the Cerb.


Um, no. Because the orthrus can leave any time it wants, while the cerb is at its mercy.

That scram/disrupts range bonus has been seen before - on the gallente recons. It never occurred to anyone that it's a big deal because the recons are slow, have a crap tank, and crucially can't project much damage to a distant target - for good reason.

But the orthrus is different - it has teeth, it can dual Asb tank, move quickly and dish out a lot of hurt at long ranges.

You can even dual prop it or 100mn AB it with a tank and excellent dps.

The Cerberus is strong and can project some dps, but it can't force a target to stay and leave when it likes.


Have to agree with this. HACs get about 50% more EHP off the bat than most t1's but only due to their resist profile which means they can save on resist rigs/mods.

The Cerb seems to lose a lot of ground to this pirate cruiser but in having said that it all pans out to availability. Perhaps with some solid competition for a good missile cruiser we will see the cerb drop from 170mil back to a much more reasonable 120-130 and the mordu cruiser will probably stay above 200mil each just thanks to market supply lag.
Rajeet Achmar
Rajeet Achmar Corporation
#565 - 2014-05-13 22:55:02 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:



=======================================================================================

GARMUR

Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 32

=======================================================================================

ORTHRUS

Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 21
Signature radius: 120

=======================================================================================

BARGHEST

Caldari Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers
Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 370

=======================================================================================

Think about it please.

Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes!
Welcomed? Hell Yes!

If any of these bonuses are OP feel free to adjust them but reliance on rigs is hereby gone and it allows you to curb it once you introduce modules that improve missile damage application.


So your idea is to completely remove the whole point of these ships being fast kitey ships with long point range and make them an average DPS ship? No thanks, they have like no tank and no cap.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#566 - 2014-05-13 23:18:47 UTC
Rajeet Achmar wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.


And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships.


I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent.

Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Rajeet Achmar
Rajeet Achmar Corporation
#567 - 2014-05-13 23:26:43 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rajeet Achmar wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.


And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships.


I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent.

Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.


You might want to look at how much PG they are getting and fit one up before you say they don't sacrifice tank. And the barghest isnt mind blowing on the DPS scale. The only main benefit I'm seeing from these ships is nice point range and engagement distance, they are not tanky, they have no cap, and the low PG makes fits tight.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2014-05-14 00:02:25 UTC
Rajeet Achmar wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rajeet Achmar wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.


And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships.


I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent.

Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.


You might want to look at how much PG they are getting and fit one up before you say they don't sacrifice tank. And the barghest isnt mind blowing on the DPS scale. The only main benefit I'm seeing from these ships is nice point range and engagement distance, they are not tanky, they have no cap, and the low PG makes fits tight.


You can download the data files for eft from reddit. I've already put together some fits to check the numbers. Of course there are compromises, but the results are staggering.

The best dps I got from the cruiser was 1200(!!) overheated. This was with t2 hams, 4 faction bcu, t2 damage rig and some implants.

This is a *lot* of damage from a dual Asb tanked cruiser that absolutely dictates range and delivers its massive dps at range.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#569 - 2014-05-14 00:21:30 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:



=======================================================================================

GARMUR

Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 32

=======================================================================================

ORTHRUS

Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 21
Signature radius: 120

=======================================================================================

BARGHEST

Caldari Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion radius

Gallente Battleship Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile explosion velocity

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers
Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 370

=======================================================================================

Think about it please.

Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes!
Welcomed? Hell Yes!

If any of these bonuses are OP feel free to adjust them but reliance on rigs is hereby gone and it allows you to curb it once you introduce modules that improve missile damage application.


You are quite clearly not fit to give suggestions on anything missile related.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#570 - 2014-05-14 00:24:25 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


The Cerberus is strong and can project some dps, but it can't force a target to stay and leave when it likes.


Exactly. This is why the Orthus is scary and the Cerberus is not.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#571 - 2014-05-14 00:27:47 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.


This dude gets it, but I still think the Barghest will not be that popular unless it can do more paper DPS.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#572 - 2014-05-14 00:33:22 UTC
I came excited..

I saw:

No application
No mids for Application mods

I am disappointed till we get application mods for lowslots..
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#573 - 2014-05-14 00:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
You can download the data files for eft from reddit. I've already put together some fits to check the numbers. Of course there are compromises, but the results are staggering.

The best dps I got from the cruiser was 1200(!!) overheated. This was with t2 hams, 4 faction bcu, t2 damage rig and some implants.

This is a *lot* of damage from a dual Asb tanked cruiser that absolutely dictates range and delivers its massive dps at range.


The main problem with the ship is the same problem as the Cerb and every other medium-sized missile ship - medium-sized missiles can't apply damage to anything that's not webbed.

HAM or HML fit, you're going to get soloed by a Malediction and it's going to be embarassing.

If you bring skirmish links into it it just gets stupider, you can't damage a Scythe Fleet or Navy Omen at all, and they can certainly damage you.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#574 - 2014-05-14 00:43:12 UTC
http://puu.sh/8Kvy8.png

Stealing this from sharpt..

That is pretty much my definition of ******* broken.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#575 - 2014-05-14 00:54:24 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
http://puu.sh/8Kvy8.png

Stealing this from sharpt..

That is pretty much my definition of ******* broken.



With LG snakes, a billion in booster (not to mention the second toon) etc etc.

Looks like the nerf T3 argument, blow two bil on ships boosters and implants .....for a cruiser.....and whine about it being broken.
Syzygium
Ventures Bar
#576 - 2014-05-14 00:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Syzygium
The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.

Cerb:
- limited to kinetic damage
- 30% less speed
- 20% less agility
- 20% less damage

Cynabal:
- comparable speed, comparable tank
- less agility
- 20% less damage closerange, 70% less damage longrange
- tracking issues at very high speeds

Vagabond:
- see Cynabal, just a few percent inferior

Vigilant:
- 25% less tank
- less agility
- comparable DPS shortrange, zero DPS longrange (Blaster)
- comparable DPS midrange, 50% less DPS longrange (Railguns)
- heavy tracking issues at high speeds (no tracking bonus on ship, bad base tracking of rails)

NavyOmen
- 50% less tank
- 20% less speed
- 30% less DPS

All ships that can compare in Speed have a FAR lesser damage projection, a FAR lesser point range and/or a significantly lower survivability.
All ships that can compare in Damage Projection have a FAR lesser Speed, Agility and rawDPS or DamagetypeLimits.

Reconsider!


Ah, and BTW i found the point where your ideas went op:
dev wrote:
Say hello to the newest pirate faction in New Eden, Mordu's Legion.


Mordu's ships are focused on three main themes: speed, missiles, and warp scram/disruptor range.

To FOCUS means to concentrate on ONE thing. Either they are fast, OR they are good missileboats OR they excel in tackling opponents. FOCUSING on THREE things is denying the meaning of FOCUS at all.

Maybe it is clear now why this concept will not work well. It is just too much focusing on too many things.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#577 - 2014-05-14 01:00:16 UTC
Syzygium wrote:
The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.

Cerb:
- limited to kinetic damage
- 30% less speed
- 20% less agility
- 20% less damage


Where does this keep coming from? Cerb and Orthrus have the same number of effective launchers. The DPS difference between the two is two light drones, not 20%.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#578 - 2014-05-14 01:02:32 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.

Cerb:
- limited to kinetic damage
- 30% less speed
- 20% less agility
- 20% less damage


Where does this keep coming from? Cerb and Orthrus have the same number of effective launchers. The DPS difference between the two is two light drones, not 20%.


Not to mention a significant advantage on tank in the resist and sig departments.
Syzygium
Ventures Bar
#579 - 2014-05-14 01:11:16 UTC
just go an build it in EFT.
Cerb with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T2 Damagerig and 3 Warrior II is 558 DPS
Orthrus with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T1 Damagerig and 5 Warrior II is 659 DPS

So either the EFT is broken, or the Cerb is at around 15% lower DPS and significantly lesser speeds. While the DPS is not what matters. What matters is, that you can easily catch the Cerb with Speedcruisers while you cannot catch the Orthrus with anything that survives the approach.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#580 - 2014-05-14 01:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Many of us been waiting a long time for a missile-based Pirate ship, so could some of you please stop trying to kill these before they're even released?

The Cerberus deals 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 37.9km with Rage heavy assault missiles ... The Tengu deals 886 damage (1042 overheated) out to 25.2km, also with Rage heavy assault missiles... And the Orthrus does 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 25.2km as well, again with Rage heavy assault missiles. These numbers are with V skills and 4x T2 BCUs.

I'm honestly not sure where some of you are getting your numbers from, but even with +5 implants and Faction BCU's you'll be hard-pressed to break 1000 dps (even overheated) in the Orthrus. There is something inherently wrong with the EFT file everyone is using because the Orthrus is not capable of anywhere near that much dps.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.