Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well lets just look at this..

An Arazu facing off vs a small pack of destroyers solo - You don't want to be landing at zero on them, your best defense / offence is keeping range on them - Arazu gets a bonus to point range, ergo starting at 30k VS "packs" of destroyers is going to be a win win for the Arazu. Fit it right, the 1st few destroyers are dead before they get in range, you can tank a couple more while picking them off.

Arazu VS BC solo, again range is going to be your best friend to start. Point, drop drones get in range for the limited gun dps you have to be useful, or simply kite using drones till the job is done.. Don't know that I have come across a BC that can kite as well as the, admittedly bad at kiting, Arazu in a 1 v 1 fight.

Arazu VS Cruiser - Well here you just do as you always have and pick your targets - If it is a kiter, be prepared or just don't engage it (same as you would now). A well fit and flown cruiser is the biggest threat, next to a bunch of ceptors, which if you are at all smart, you just won't engage.

Even entering a plex uncloaked with someone in it, the Arazu still has an advantage if they are not sitting on the warpin, ie; not there to fight. Your longer point range will still have a chance get him as he aligns out.
They will not see you on Dscan until you decloak by activating the gate, giving you a Huge advantage over anything not cloaky.

I'm sorry m8 but your pitiful arguments are just that - pitiful and those of a LAZY PVP'r who wants it all handed to him on a plate.
Stop looking at how bad this change is and try to find the positives. You being lazy is not going to get CCP to change their mind about this change.

NB; I would have thought my mention of my Blops activity would have been a hint for you.
I spend a good deal of my time flying cloaky ships, of all types.

It's random, usually they teleport back when you leave the plex grid, but sometimes they just give up and sit where you left them. There is a ton more of shenanigans you can do with plex npcs now on sisi, like 0 m/s npcs that just refuse to lock you unless you shoot them first or 24 sec reappearing npcs etc.

More concerning is frig pvp in med/large even with their minuscule damage npcs are more than just annoying especially for kiting frigs like condors and slicers.

Personally it seems the new NPC spawn rates are designed to keep farmers in A plex longer = More chance of being confronted with PVP and reduced LP earnings.

It is likely to have a roll on effect of removing many Bots and some of the less dedicated LP farmers.
The removal of Bots is a positive but removing too many farmers could have adverse affects down the line, with less systems becoming Vulnerable. This in turn leads to stagnant warzones, with people leaving FW as a result due to boredom.

I know a lot of people will argue this by saying "we plex when we want to capture new systems" - I say "good", problem is, without opposing militia farmers plexing there is no need for corps mass plexing as systems become static OR you end up with a situation where everyone has to plex for hours and hours each day to get a system vulnerable.

As much as FW PVP'rs like to hate on farmers, they are an integral part of FW. Without them FW slowly dies.

Thanks for posting this.

In the large it took 8 salvoes to kill one rat?

Also if you recall what sort of paper dps were you getting from the sb in eft or the eve client?

We are not talking about all of faction war here. We are only talking about the occupancy war. If players want to run faction war missions for pve they can.

However, players have long been asking for this single aspect of eve (fw occupancy) to be based on pvp instead of pve. CCP has already indicated they also want to go in that direction. CCP Fozzie just reconfirmed he they still want to implement changes in that direction. So yes CCP and many players over many years are pushing that occupancy be a pvp game.

I am glad ccp is still looking to go in that direction and I don't mind waiting for it. Any faction war players who have been requesting improvements for any amount of time have learned to be patient.

8 salvoes on the BC rat in the larges. Paper DPS 470ish.

So if FW isn't about flipping systems and controlling the most space and having the highest upgrades - What exactly is it about?


So FW members should be restricted to running what are without a doubt the worst missions in the game?
And I'm really curious - If FW isn't about occupancy rates and systems changing hands and ihubs being upgraded then destroyed - What is it about?

So FW is only for 1 type of player, the dedicated full time PVP'r. Are you so consumed with yourself, You would like to see FW changed so much, so you can enjoy your play style to the exclusion of everyone else?

Maybe you need to ask yourself why you are a FW member, it doesn't seem it has anything to do with FW. You just want a Giant PVP Arena. That is not FW and in fact is not aside from tournaments a part of TQ.
I actually suggested Arena style PVP Complexes for FW which you (and a couple of others) said was wrong and should never happen - Yet you want the WHOLE of FW turned into a giant PVP Arena.

I haven't seen a post from Fozzie or any other dev that indicates they are working towards removing Complexes from FW.
If there in fact is such a post or thread I hope someone within CCP management is smart enough to realize how bad that would be, not only for FW but for the entire balance of EVE and says NO.

FW is about conflict, just as you were told previously.

Plexes were created the way they were to encourage conflict. Even the missions were meant to be dangerous.

FW isn't mining, it isn't incursions, it isn't nulsec farmville. It is PVP with rewards, or at least that's what the plex LP is supposed to be about. It is a reward for putting your ship at risk.

The farmers risk nothing consequential and get the same rewards as the guys manning up. It's not fair to the real pilots.

Also, I suggest if you want anyone to take you seriously in this thread, post with your FW character. Show us that character that has no kills and a bunch of stabbed frigate losses.

FW *is* (or should be) about PvP. It is a "sov light" model designed as an incentive to engage in PvP on multiple levels, from frigate duels over Plexes to fleets bashing I-Hubs to capture systems (and get engaged/hotdropped and trapped in the process). Whether it is entirely successful is up to debate, but I would like to see you argue with a straight face that FW is *not* about PvP.

The Plexes provide consensual PvP (in theory). The PvE component is pretty much for the same reason as lowsec DED sites and other lowsec content: To provide non-consensual PvP targets (again, in theory, the missions are in a sorry state of affairs, although they do provide Stealth Bombers to shoot at) and player income.



You complained about the stagnation of systems due to a reduction of farmers. I proposed a simple and effective solution which compensates for the drop in farmers. CCP is already actively working on reducing the number of farmers (and thus, the number of players) involved in the warzone.

This is what these changes are about, for crying out loud.

The PvE aspect is to provide player income. But farming plexes isn't PvE. It is farming a resource ad-nauseum. If anything, the changes here will make it more into PvE and less into farming.



You seem to think that plex farmers are a needed part of the equation. They aren't. They are a side effect of a system that can be easily gamed for profit by people who have no stake in the warzone. I'd know, I have an alt sitting on mountains of LP for zero risk, involvement or interest. Heck, my pirate main has more of an effect on the warzone that my so-called "involved" FW alt.

There are other balancing tools for the management of faction item supply factors which aren't "orbit button, get LP, buy stuff". They are actually game design, and from the gist of this change CCP is heading in that direction.



You seem to be advocating farming as PvE or as involvement. It is neither. PvE is where you fight the environment for some gain. Farming in its current form is shooting 1 weak NPC dead in seconds, then running away from PvP content (in an area dubbed the "warzone", no less) with no actual penalty (unless the other guy is bored enough to stalk you for a long, long time with 3 scrams in his mids).

In short: FW doesn't need farmers. It needs PvP content (plexing in PvP ships by people likely to fight, I-hub bashes, and perhaps additional PvP objectives currently missing) and it needs PvE content (an overhaul of FW missions is sorely needed - Even making them more like "regular" missions would be better than their current Stealth-Bomber-Is-King form).

Plexes aren't for PvE. End of story.

I posted this before in the Warfare & Tactics forum




There is a great opportunity to provide a zone that appeals to a number of gameplay styles. The fact that FW provides PvE that can be done in PvP fitted ships should be applauded and encouraged (this should be more common elsewhere).

A number of "adjustments" to how things are currently done should be enough to encourage and improve the environment within FW.

I'm uncertain that the recent fix proposed in this thread is the answer but it maybe a good plaster (read "band aid").