These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Factional Warfare Complex Improvements

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#441 - 2014-05-20 20:02:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
per wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

First, the intent is not and has never been to eliminate farming. So using that as a yardstick just isn't realistic.


why is that not the intent, and did CCP actually say that?



first post by fozzie:
"I want to make it clear that these changes are intended to create a more interesting environment for FW plexing and to make pvp fits more competitive with "farming" fits on an lp/hr scale, but are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics."


fozzie is awful :(



You can say that, but based on what you bolded, this change will work as intended.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#442 - 2014-05-20 20:05:36 UTC
Cearain wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
per wrote:

first post by fozzie:
"I want to make it clear that these changes are intended to create a more interesting environment for FW plexing and to make pvp fits more competitive with "farming" fits on an lp/hr scale, but are not intended to somehow bring an end to "farming" or other evasion tactics."

fozzie is awful :(

You can say that, but based on what you bolded, this change will work as intended.

Crap. Now I have to agree with Cearain.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#443 - 2014-05-20 20:07:42 UTC
per wrote:
btw, am i alone here who thinks that novice plexes shouldn't influence system status as much as large plexes? i think its big part of the farmer problem(and systems ping-pong) that those novices count for same amount as large ones
currently every plex counts cca for 0,7% if i'm not wrong (hopefully not)

... i'm quite new to the fw (over one year only) so there might be some historical reasons behind this that i don't know about (feel free to tell me if its that case)
if not then why isn't it something like this: novice 0,5% < small 0,6% < med 0,7% < large 0,8%

this would make much more sense(atleast to me), pvp guys could be more willing to fight for bigger plexes and cry less about farmers in novice plexes (as they influence contested status less)

I like the current system. It forces attackers to reship through different doctrines and ship types, and places equal importance to all the plexes. No simple deciding to dominate the larger two plex types with mega blinged Sacrilege / Guardian fleets and ignoring the rest.

In any real assault in FW, there should be fights in every single plex, regardless of size. At least in my opinion, and based on my experience. Lot more fun that way.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#444 - 2014-05-20 20:10:45 UTC
Someone once mentioned BC and down Plexes...........
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#445 - 2014-05-20 21:41:51 UTC
per wrote:
btw, am i alone here who thinks that novice plexes shouldn't influence system status as much as large plexes? i think its big part of the farmer problem(and systems ping-pong) that those novices count for same amount as large ones
currently every plex counts cca for 0,7% if i'm not wrong (hopefully not)

... i'm quite new to the fw (over one year only) so there might be some historical reasons behind this that i don't know about (feel free to tell me if its that case)
if not then why isn't it something like this: novice 0,5% < small 0,6% < med 0,7% < large 0,8%

this would make much more sense(atleast to me), pvp guys could be more willing to fight for bigger plexes and cry less about farmers in novice plexes (as they influence contested status less)


Good questions but before inferno large plexes used to spawn regularly as well. Occupancy was still a pve game.

The large plexes will also be farmed like they used to be for the tags. They have more valuable tags and more spawns = more tags. Plus larger plexes give more lp for your time. And now no one can warp in on you while cloaked.

Requiring larger ships and more/larger guns/missile launchers does not make people more interested in pvp. People used to plex in BCs (at least amarr did) but winning the occupancy war never a pvp activity. If anything people will become even more risk adverse. I wonder if a mission runner stealth bomber will capture the large and medium plexes and small plexes.

Now that ccp offered the mobile depots you can easily swap stabs/damage mods as needed.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#446 - 2014-05-20 23:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:

I and most of my corp echo these answers.

Q1: Everyday I log in. When RL permits which is not as often as I like.

Q2. All types. I've died and killed solo and up.

Q3. About 2 years in Amarr FW now. I'm Amarr til the game is dead. Co-incidently, I chose Amarr because I believed it was the hardest choice of the four available, at the time. I do not fly Minmatar ships (by choice) and it was at a time of the 1 med slot Coercer and Retribution amongst other difficulties (pre-laser buff iirc).

Q4. 10years 1 month (my other old subscriptions are not active and are likely never to be again).

Q5. I run plex's and cash in LP now and again. I sell loot and I low-sec belt rat (although admittedly I did so to repair my sec status the clone soldier tags return a nice amount of isk too).

A1: WCS are obviously a problem in plex's. I have posted earlier on how I believe they should be changed (read: "Repaired").

A2: If the right balance is brought to FW there will be a slow and steady repopulation of the warzone ( I strongly believe this if the right motivations and incentives and the right balance is found).

A3: This would not be necessary but corps and alliances within FW do organise themselves when it is necessary.

A number of balancing actions on FW (including providing a BC and down complex) would really enhance the FW zone.

The LP Store, FW Tier system, ihub upgrade system, Ranks (that mean nothing atm), Size of plex's and spawn rate (which should be linked to contested % state) could all be used to really boost FW.


As someone who has been around FW for so long, would you like to see it revert to how it was before Inferno?
When only a dedicated few belonged to FW and the main Pvp was with roaming neutrals, who either wandered into FW space unknowingly (you could easily in those days) or you and your mates went outside FW space to find fights.

With Kronos just around the corner;
Botting Plexes post Kronos is going to end up more trouble than it is worth. Don't believe me? Jump on Sisi and go do some plexing in a stabbed T1 frigate (botters choice).
Stabbed Afk or semi afk farming will be severely limited, Npc's spawn regularly and are not easy to kill with a lowskill stabbed frigate.
So now you have 2 aspects of Stabbed income from plexing severely changed / limited.
Losing the ability to use covert cloaks within 30k of the button is not the end of the world, Faction points and overheating make covert cloaks usable for camping plexes, you just need to react a little faster because you can't sit on the warpin.

FW is not the perfect PVP environment but it is now 1 step closer to being balanced.

**Thanks to the guys who answered my lengthy questions, I have only ever been a part time FW player and you've given me some great information.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#447 - 2014-05-21 01:10:01 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

As someone who has been around FW for so long, would you like to see it revert to how it was before Inferno?
When only a dedicated few belonged to FW and the main Pvp was with roaming neutrals, who either wandered into FW space unknowingly (you could easily in those days) or you and your mates went outside FW space to find fights.


yes i would, but the only thing that can stay is constantly spawning outposts. and i want our promised cyno jammer that was just never implemented.

the main pvp was not with roaming neutrals infact the most pvp before inferno was against the enemy militia. neutrals who came into the warzone on many occasions both sides teamed up and butchered them, they often thought they were gonna be in the middle of a FW fight and ended up being the middle of our crosshairs.


Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#448 - 2014-05-21 02:05:03 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Yun Kuai wrote:

Q6.1: Yes stabs should be removed as they simply allow people to safely avoid conflict. Cov ops cloaks take SP for the ships and the modules involved. Minus the cloaking hunters hunting the stabbed farmers (you wouldn't need this if stabs were removed) Cov Ops game play takes finesse to execute as opposed to just semi-afk or botting play style that is happening now.
Q6.2: I already do. We pick a system to capture and we get all ships on board and are plexing 23/7 to capture it
Q6.3: If there weren't hordes of farmers running plexes in almost every system 23/7, there would be no need to run plexes 12-14 hours a day. That "need" is only there as a consequence to the farming problem
Q6.4: If plexes became less important (or have no impact like the old days) then you would see people taking the time to roam around and go out looking for pvp everyday. Instead we're stuck defending systems that can be flipped in less than 2 days if you have full timezone coverage and also having to fight hordes of farmers who have no incentive to fight, only the desire to make LP. So it seems you misunderstand the problem, if farming was fixed you would see more people actively running around the warzone instead of what happens now. Trick questionAttention

Thanks for taking the time, very informative.
One thing though, your answers to Q6 sort of contradict each other. You remove Stabs, you also remove farmers, which leads to plexing becoming less important for those trying to flip systems.
If plexing becomes less important, there are less system changes, FW again becomes static like it was a few years ago and people leave because "it got boring".
Eve more than any other population group are easily bored (aside from miners, I would go mad) and seek constant action. Without the hordes of farmers there is no need for your group to go "pick a system to capture" and enter the plex race to outdo the farmers, so you would only plex enough to make isk to cover your costs.
With hundreds of alt farmers gone from FW, the few dedicated solo farmers will soon leave as they are now the primary target for all those who used to, plex to flip systems and pvp for FW, dedicated pvp'rs who are only n FW for the Pvp, and anyone else who cares to come into system.

In the end you end up with, a few large well organised groups dominating systems and a few smaller groups just scraping by because they are smart enough to stay under the radar of the bigger entities . Pretty much the current situation with Sov Nul.........



I don't think it would play out this way. Faction war can have farmers and pve. They can run missions. I happen to think Faction war missions are very well designed low sec missions that can serve as a good introduction to low sec. I think ccp should consider having other corps offer low sec mission along the faction war line of get in kill a select few rats and get out. It teaches people to deal with gate camps and teaches them that low sec isn't so scary.

But there is no reason that the occupancy war also has to be pve. It can indeed be pvp. Large null sec groups do not do well in faction war plexing because it is much more dependent on each pilot's skill. There are 171 systems each have 4 sizes of plexes that let different types of ships in. Let me say that if large alliances could keep up the battle in all these plexes in all these systems FW would be fantastic. This should be the goal. Lots of people would be playing eve for the massive small gang pvp they would get and ccp could then expand out into pirate factions and further divide the forces.

But as it is the pvpers need better mechanics so that occupancy in 95% of systems is not decided by a carebear race. Carebear races are just no fun. That's why we have an alliance pvp tournament instead of an alliance mission running tournament.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#449 - 2014-05-21 08:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: per
i'm writing this for second time cause my previous msg got somehow deleted while posting so it will be a "little" bit blunt so sorry for that

Veskrashen wrote:
per wrote:
.....

.... and places equal importance to all the plexes....


can't agree with you - novice plex spawns much faster = much more influence than any other size of plex , they are definitely not equal in my eyes ... one of thing why farmers are such problem in those novices/smalls, will be mitigated a little bit by upcoming changes hopefully


Cearain wrote:
per wrote:
.....

The large plexes will also be farmed like they used to be for the tags. They have more valuable tags and more spawns = more tags. Plus larger plexes give more lp for your time. And now no one can warp in on you while cloaked.

Requiring larger ships and more/larger guns/missile launchers does not make people more interested in pvp. People used to plex in BCs (at least amarr did) but winning the occupancy war never a pvp activity. If anything people will become even more risk adverse. I wonder if a mission runner stealth bomber will capture the large and medium plexes and small plexes.

Now that ccp offered the mobile depots you can easily swap stabs/damage mods as needed.


- large plexes will be still farmed but pvp guys don't care about that much i think, pvp guys are there to take the plex as soon as possible and put system into invulnerable status as soon as possible + kill everything that tries to stop them if possible and novice plexes are much superior for this as they have same influence on system and spawn faster than any other type of plex
- "And now no one can warp in on you while cloaked" actually everyone still can warp on you while cloaked in large plex
- but winning the occupancy war never a pvp activity - and this is not ok i think
- about bombers - we might see some but i dont think most of farmer alts have them trained + they are not especially cheap if fitted + not enough dps in large i guess .. i still wonder if its possible to sit at 29,9km from beacon then move a little and cloak or if there is some anti-cloak buffer (no i wasnt on sisi testing, sorry)
- about depos - id say its too much effort for alt farmers/bots , anchor, wait, refit etc ...




well back to the topic i dont think we will see some other changes till kronos and some time after it as we will be testing those new rats and how it affects cloaky/stabbed farmers/bots but still would be nice to have some response from fozzie or low-sec csm members about some ideas in this thread (especially timer rollback?) if there is any discussion about that or something else i can imagine you got lot of other things to do but it would be really nice, thx
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#450 - 2014-05-21 10:27:29 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

As someone who has been around FW for so long, would you like to see it revert to how it was before Inferno?
When only a dedicated few belonged to FW and the main Pvp was with roaming neutrals, who either wandered into FW space unknowingly (you could easily in those days) or you and your mates went outside FW space to find fights.


yes i would, but the only thing that can stay is constantly spawning outposts. and i want our promised cyno jammer that was just never implemented.

the main pvp was not with roaming neutrals infact the most pvp before inferno was against the enemy militia. neutrals who came into the warzone on many occasions both sides teamed up and butchered them, they often thought they were gonna be in the middle of a FW fight and ended up being the middle of our crosshairs.


In fact FW was more Faction Warfare related than it is now. It is only because FW was "buffed" and made a popular source of income that it has lost a lot of its meaning.
I'm not a role player but if I were, I would be dismayed about the direction FW has taken.
I always thought FW was to be built up around role play and fighting for your chosen faction, not who can make the most isk in the shortest time.

Maybe the militia's could get together as they used to and "discourage" the neut fleets Evil

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Silence Iganku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2014-05-21 11:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Silence Iganku
per wrote:

- about bombers - we might see some but i dont think most of farmer alts have them trained + they are not especially cheap if fitted + not enough dps in large i guess .. i still wonder if its possible to sit at 29,9km from beacon then move a little and cloak or if there is some anti-cloak buffer (no i wasnt on sisi testing, sorry)


a little fleet of bombers now is able to stop a farmer simply wating him inside in stealth,
with this patch it will not be possible anymore:

warp scrabler ? no more possible

ecm war ? out of optimal range

stealth bomber and other stealth ship = trash now

tell me now how to block a farmer full fitted with stabilizer and able to use a d scan (maybe renaming a stiletto ship " i'm hello kitty i will not hurt you" ? )

Waiting the brand new ship cover ops mining frigate that now will farm plex at 29.9 km with 4 stabilizer and ready to cloak and run as soon someone will enter or decloack GREAT WORK in BALANCING THE GAME simply genius :D

balanced to make people farm better
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#452 - 2014-05-21 12:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Silence Iganku wrote:
per wrote:

- about bombers - we might see some but i dont think most of farmer alts have them trained + they are not especially cheap if fitted + not enough dps in large i guess .. i still wonder if its possible to sit at 29,9km from beacon then move a little and cloak or if there is some anti-cloak buffer (no i wasnt on sisi testing, sorry)


a little fleet of bombers now is able to stop a farmer simply wating him inside in stealth,
with this patch it will not be possible anymore:

warp scrabler ? no more possible

ecm war ? out of optimal range

stealth bomber and other stealth ship = trash now

tell me now how to block a farmer full fitted with stabilizer and able to use a d scan (maybe renaming a stiletto ship " i'm hello kitty i will not hurt you" ? )

Waiting the brand new ship cover ops mining frigate that now will farm plex at 29.9 km with 4 stabilizer and ready to cloak and run as soon someone will enter or decloack GREAT WORK in BALANCING THE GAME simply genius :D

balanced to make people farm better

You could try reading about the upcoming changes to Complex spawns. 4 stab fit, you won't be able to complete Novices let alone anything bigger.
Multi stab fits are being all but eliminated with more NPC's with higher repping capability. Basically only higher skilled players will be able to run stabbed fits and still have enough Dps to kill the Npc's.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#453 - 2014-05-21 15:46:51 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Silence Iganku wrote:
per wrote:

- about bombers - we might see some but i dont think most of farmer alts have them trained + they are not especially cheap if fitted + not enough dps in large i guess .. i still wonder if its possible to sit at 29,9km from beacon then move a little and cloak or if there is some anti-cloak buffer (no i wasnt on sisi testing, sorry)


a little fleet of bombers now is able to stop a farmer simply wating him inside in stealth,
with this patch it will not be possible anymore:

warp scrabler ? no more possible

ecm war ? out of optimal range

stealth bomber and other stealth ship = trash now

tell me now how to block a farmer full fitted with stabilizer and able to use a d scan (maybe renaming a stiletto ship " i'm hello kitty i will not hurt you" ? )

Waiting the brand new ship cover ops mining frigate that now will farm plex at 29.9 km with 4 stabilizer and ready to cloak and run as soon someone will enter or decloack GREAT WORK in BALANCING THE GAME simply genius :D

balanced to make people farm better

You could try reading about the upcoming changes to Complex spawns. 4 stab fit, you won't be able to complete Novices let alone anything bigger.
Multi stab fits are being all but eliminated with more NPC's with higher repping capability. Basically only higher skilled players will be able to run stabbed fits and still have enough Dps to kill the Npc's.


This might be true except for mobile depots.

Also I don't think making farmers have more skill points should be a goal. I think the goal should be to make the occupancy war a pvp game. Until that happens very few people will think the occupancy game fun and challenging. The vast majority will only play it for isk.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#454 - 2014-05-21 15:58:45 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Multi stab fits are being all but eliminated with more NPC's with higher repping capability. Basically only higher skilled players will be able to run stabbed fits and still have enough Dps to kill the Npc's.

This might be true except for mobile depots.

Also I don't think making farmers have more skill points should be a goal. I think the goal should be to make the occupancy war a pvp game. Until that happens very few people will think the occupancy game fun and challenging. The vast majority will only play it for isk.

1. Having to swap your fits every 1.5-5 minutes, depending on plex size, is going to be annoying as heck. I doubt many folks would choose that option - and those that are will not be able to do it AFK. Noone is worried about the evasion ability of actual players who are actually at the keyboard - it's the AFK ones that are at issue. Those guys won't be hot swapping stabs in and out of their ships.

2. Occupancy warfare IS a PvP endeavor. You're confusing contested percentages and flags on a map with actual warzone control.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#455 - 2014-05-21 16:15:13 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


In fact FW was more Faction Warfare related than it is now. It is only because FW was "buffed" and made a popular source of income that it has lost a lot of its meaning.
I'm not a role player but if I were, I would be dismayed about the direction FW has taken.
I always thought FW was to be built up around role play and fighting for your chosen faction, not who can make the most isk in the shortest time.

Maybe the militia's could get together as they used to and "discourage" the neut fleets Evil

that is pretty much why the militias now are a couple of of hold outs and the rest have just said eff it and canceled sub or gone to 0.0 and canceled sub. FW needs a reset to bring in some srs fresh blood. The RP was strong but so many things over the years contributed to people just saying eff RP, for example repping a friendly who was a criminal automatically decreased your FACTION standings, for years it was like that. just one of many examples that helped destroy it. hell in amarr militia we believed each of our own corps was so righteous and doing gods work that we were killing each other half the time.

every single old guard and even new players are completely dismayed you are right. there has been so many opportunities that ccp has squandered. Every old guard i know was waiting in anticipation for the system wide cyno jammer to get back to the old school battleship brawling only to be disappointed as it was cast aside for whatever myriad of reasons. and no the mobile cyno jammer is not even close to a substitute.


EVEN more disappointing was hearing that large plexs where coming back, but they were going to be unrestricted. that lifted our hopes and then crashed them down. because nobody from the old fw hardly fought in the unres because it was just kite ship central and everybody hated it. The ONLY people who liked it at the time were those with drake blobs. Everybody else choose the large restricted and there is so much youtube footage of fights in the large res because brawling was the pvp choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTIXo59Xpjk these are the fights people loved.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#456 - 2014-05-21 16:22:40 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Multi stab fits are being all but eliminated with more NPC's with higher repping capability. Basically only higher skilled players will be able to run stabbed fits and still have enough Dps to kill the Npc's.

This might be true except for mobile depots.

Also I don't think making farmers have more skill points should be a goal. I think the goal should be to make the occupancy war a pvp game. Until that happens very few people will think the occupancy game fun and challenging. The vast majority will only play it for isk.

1. Having to swap your fits every 1.5-5 minutes, depending on plex size, is going to be annoying as heck. I doubt many folks would choose that option - and those that are will not be able to do it AFK. Noone is worried about the evasion ability of actual players who are actually at the keyboard - it's the AFK ones that are at issue. Those guys won't be hot swapping stabs in and out of their ships.

2. Occupancy warfare IS a PvP endeavor. You're confusing contested percentages and flags on a map with actual warzone control.




1) We disagree about goals. You are just happy that someone has to actually sit at a keyboard. This is not enough for me to consider the game fun and challenging.

2) Yeah in determining who is winning the occupancy war I look at.... who is occupying more systems. I know certain people in your corp like to make up some other goal and call yourselves winners. Some from your corp basically think you are "winning" the occupancy war so long as you are holding a single system even though the others are lost, that's your right. We just disagree.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#457 - 2014-05-21 16:23:07 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:

snip


As someone who has been around FW for so long, would you like to see it revert to how it was before Inferno?
When only a dedicated few belonged to FW and the main Pvp was with roaming neutrals, who either wandered into FW space unknowingly (you could easily in those days) or you and your mates went outside FW space to find fights.

snip.



No I expect them to learn the lessons of both iterations and to improve it further.

There is no need to go back, hence why I believe that there will be a need for more change in FW and quickly.


No, I don't go on SISI. It is highly unlikely I'm going to waste my precious little online time and subscription playing where it doesn't matter.

Some of us test things, like new setups, on Tranquility.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#458 - 2014-05-21 18:53:46 UTC
wait, they never deployed the mobile cyno jammer?
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#459 - 2014-05-21 19:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Veskrashen
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
wait, they never deployed the mobile cyno jammer?

They did, as a deployable. The thing is that back in the day apparently they floated the idea of allowing FW corps to deploy system wide cynojammers. Apparently that idea was never implemented and some folks are still butthurt.

Considering how much we rely on JF logistics... I'm kinda happy about that.

Cerain wrote:
1) We disagree about goals. You are just happy that someone has to actually sit at a keyboard. This is not enough for me to consider the game fun and challenging.

I know. I've read your suggestion that FW plexes be PvP only affairs, and I think it's dumb. I also know, based on this thread and others, that CCP doesn't intend FW to be a PvP only thunderdome, and has no intention of going back to the "good old days". For me, then, a more realistic expectation is to lessen the impact of AFK farmers and reduce the income they can expect from plexing in stabbed frigates to the point where other activities are more attractive. That would be enough to change the state of play in FW significantly in my view.

Cerain wrote:
2) Yeah in determining who is winning the occupancy war I look at.... who is occupying more systems. I know certain people in your corp like to make up some other goal and call yourselves winners. Some from your corp basically think you are "winning" the occupancy war so long as you are holding a single system even though the others are lost, that's your right. We just disagree.

Noone looks at holding 1 system as winning. We do, however, place relative importance on holding key systems, and don't stress about backwater areas noone lives in. If WTs aren't basing out of Ostinegele, and neither are we, then who owns it is essentially irrelevant for anything other than helping determine Tier - which really only impacts FW income.

But hey, use whatever metric you want to. We know we can take pretty much any system we want to, and don't really care to exert the effort needed to deplex 101 systems in the face of the current farmer pressure. We call that a smart allocation of resources.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#460 - 2014-05-21 19:53:01 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:

Cerain wrote:
1) We disagree about goals. You are just happy that someone has to actually sit at a keyboard. This is not enough for me to consider the game fun and challenging.

I know. I've read your suggestion that FW plexes be PvP only affairs, and I think it's dumb.


Your belief that occupancy should not be pvp driven is where we disagree.


Veskrashen wrote:

I also know, based on this thread and others, that CCP doesn't intend FW to be a PvP only thunderdome, and has no intention of going back to the "good old days". For me, then, a more realistic expectation is to lessen the impact of AFK farmers and reduce the income they can expect from plexing in stabbed frigates to the point where other activities are more attractive. That would be enough to change the state of play in FW significantly in my view.


I am not sure what you mean by good old days. FW occupancy was always pve. They just added more lp to do it instead of making it pvp.

Where do you get the idea that ccp doesn't intend fw occupancy to be a pvp thunderdome? (whatever that might mean - I assume it means allot of pvp) They said these changes are not going to end farming but I am not sure they ever officially changed their position that fw occupancy should primarily be a pvp activity.

I am not as excited as you are that farmers will now fly destroyers instead of frigates when offensive plexing, and defensive plexing will have no change at all. But that's just me. You can keep your alts in defensive plexes if you think that is time well spent and fun.


Veskrashen wrote:

Cerain wrote:
2) Yeah in determining who is winning the occupancy war I look at.... who is occupying more systems. I know certain people in your corp like to make up some other goal and call yourselves winners. Some from your corp basically think you are "winning" the occupancy war so long as you are holding a single system even though the others are lost, that's your right. We just disagree.

Noone looks at holding 1 system as winning. We do, however, place relative importance on holding key systems, and don't stress about backwater areas noone lives in. If WTs aren't basing out of Ostinegele, and neither are we, then who owns it is essentially irrelevant for anything other than helping determine Tier - which really only impacts FW income.

But hey, use whatever metric you want to. We know we can take pretty much any system we want to, and don't really care to exert the effort needed to deplex 101 systems in the face of the current farmer pressure. We call that a smart allocation of resources.


What percent of systems do you consider "key" by whatever metric you make up? 5% 10%? The rest no one bothers with, why? Because it's not fun or challenging. CCP could improve this. Almost 2 years ago they said they would take steps to improve this. But now they give us this, with no explanation of what happened to the mechanics that would improve this.

You are supposedly fighting in war for occupancy but you really don't care about occupancy in over 90% of systems. The game can and should be improved.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815