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[Future Release] Removing Wh systems from the map/kills EVE API

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Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#341 - 2014-05-07 00:06:12 UTC
Triksterism wrote:
I am dumbfounded by this whole topic. It seems to me that the majority of posters here are neglecting the primary reason people pvp in WH space. Its not because its made easy by 3rd party tools utilizing api data that is not available in game. It's the pure joy of the hunt. That moment when two WH entities just happen to come across each other, mount up their forces and meet in glorious battle on the field.

Personally this data will have no effect on the way I live and explore in WH space. And with what I see being posted here, I hope it does go away to make 'carebears' more comfortable coming into WH space giving rage rollers a higher chance at more targets.

It's a game. Adapt or quit, it's really that simple.



You've got it, we hunt with Spaceships, not iPhones.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#342 - 2014-05-07 00:09:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
Alundil wrote:
Perhaps you should try and not be insulting in a discussion thread. It's no secret that this is, and has been the MO for SA/GSF since it's inception. Name calling doesn't change that pretty well documented fact.


no really you are suggesting that we have some sort of hidden agenda in supporting this change

tell us what you think this agenda is, i need a good laugh


The ability to farm systems undisturbed with no API to clue anyone in that the hole they just rolled into is one of your bearing systems and thus they won't leave a scout in system to keep an eye on it and gank you.

It's not really a "hidden" agenda though so I'm not sure it counts.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#343 - 2014-05-07 00:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
The ability to farm systems undisturbed with no API to clue anyone in that the hole they just rolled into is one of your bearing systems and thus they won't leave a scout in system to keep an eye on it and gank you.

It's not really a "hidden" agenda though so I'm not sure it counts.


querns and weaselior are already multibillionaires and aryth is a trillionaire

i don't do wormholes

next

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2014-05-07 00:12:24 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Alundil wrote:
.

your entire garbage post does not distinguish between "data not provided by the client ever" and "data that people prefer to have provided out of game for analysis by a third party tool"

the first is what is being eliminated, the second is what the api is for


In some of the original discussion in the other thread, some of CCP Foxfour's reasoning was
basically
Quote:
This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not


in true CCP PR fashion - the yardstick of "why we want to make a change" continually moves once announced because they literally have no idea about how to propose changes to a customer group without stepping all over their ..... lips.

So no - it's not garbage in the context of the original poorly thought-out keyboard-mashing attempt to find some justification of why this change is a "good" change.

foxfour phrased something poorly and the meaning behind it is clear and unassailable, hence the persistent refusal to do anything but harp on the way the phrase could be misinterpreted

your point is bad, so you've got to resort to this. the clear meaning was that through api and third-party use you could gain an advantage absolutely unmatchable through in-game tools, it's like if the api exposed tower passwords

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#345 - 2014-05-07 00:15:23 UTC
Andski wrote:

i don't do wormholes


Then I guess your opinion carries no weight here. Thanks for sharing though
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#346 - 2014-05-07 00:15:33 UTC
Basically the issue is the only was to reasonably catch carebears in WH space is with log on traps which are made possible by the API information. If you do decide to remove this information, WH space needs something pretty significant to make WH space less safe.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#347 - 2014-05-07 00:15:56 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Andski wrote:

i don't do wormholes


Then I guess your opinion carries no weight here. Thanks for sharing though

"your opinion on this easily understood topic is irrelevant unless you have a huge bias in a particular direction"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#348 - 2014-05-07 00:17:21 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Andski wrote:

i don't do wormholes


Then I guess your opinion carries no weight here. Thanks for sharing though

"your opinion on this easily understood topic is irrelevant unless you have a huge bias in a particular direction"


Yeah or "your opinion based on no firsthand experience carries no weight because of a total lack of credibility"

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#349 - 2014-05-07 00:19:14 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:

Yeah or "your opinion based on no firsthand experience carries no weight because of a total lack of credibility"



credibility determinations are not generally delegated to obviously biased individuals

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#350 - 2014-05-07 00:20:13 UTC
you'd also dismiss my opinion if I played in wormholes exclusively for PvE

so i dunno

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#351 - 2014-05-07 00:21:41 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:

Yeah or "your opinion based on no firsthand experience carries no weight because of a total lack of credibility"



credibility determinations are not generally delegated to obviously biased individuals


Credibility is not generally delegated to people with no knowledge on the topic which they're discussing



Goons literally the high sec pubbies demanding null sec changes to make it more accessible to them ITT
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#352 - 2014-05-07 00:22:04 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Basically the issue is the only was to reasonably catch carebears in WH space is with log on traps which are made possible by the API information. If you do decide to remove this information, WH space needs something pretty significant to make WH space less safe.



Wait wut?...

So because the carebears are doing a better job of covering their backsides than you are, you deserve an out of game source of information to bypass their diligence and attention to gameplay mechanics?

Nice.... Why didn't I think of that?

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#353 - 2014-05-07 00:26:20 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Goons literally the high sec pubbies demanding null sec changes to make it more accessible to them ITT


yeah let me tell you how much we wish we were in wormholes rather than owning where it actually matters

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#354 - 2014-05-07 00:30:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Goons literally the high sec pubbies demanding null sec changes to make it more accessible to them ITT


yeah let me tell you how much we wish we were in wormholes rather than owning where it actually matters


If it matters to you, that's ok I suppose....

Owning it sounds like a hassle. I think I'll just stroll through your little garden and pluck all the juicy berries at my leisure instead.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#355 - 2014-05-07 00:35:23 UTC
i think you'll spend more time whining about how those berries aren't given to you on a silver platter

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#356 - 2014-05-07 00:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
Basically the issue is the only was to reasonably catch carebears in WH space is with log on traps which are made possible by the API information. If you do decide to remove this information, WH space needs something pretty significant to make WH space less safe.



Wait wut?...

So because the carebears are doing a better job of covering their backsides than you are, you deserve an out of game source of information to bypass their diligence and attention to gameplay mechanics?

Nice.... Why didn't I think of that?

As in it is stupid that as an agressor I would need to use out of game tools and a log on trap to catch a PvEer. It is stupid that is the only way I can catch PvEer. It is stupid that within moments of a new WH spawning in a system the PvEer is notified of it. Subsequently the PvEer immediately stop siege/triage, fit stabs and warp to their POS where they are safe. It is stupid how safe PvE is. It is stupid that I need out of game tools to have a shot at catching PvEers.

PvE should never be that safe. PvP should never be about out of game tools and log on traps. What I am asking for is an in-game solution where PvE isn't perfectly safe and PvPers have a chance to catch PvEers without using out of game tools and log on traps.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#357 - 2014-05-07 00:38:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Goons literally the high sec pubbies demanding null sec changes to make it more accessible to them ITT


yeah let me tell you how much we wish we were in wormholes rather than owning where it actually matters


Yeah I hear you guys are just swimming in content and activity where it actually matters Lol
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#358 - 2014-05-07 00:43:01 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Yeah I hear you guys are just swimming in content and activity where it actually matters Lol


well we keep sending out broadcasts for formups so yeah you heard right

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#359 - 2014-05-07 00:45:17 UTC
Andski wrote:
i think you'll spend more time whining about how those berries aren't given to you on a silver platter



But that's what makes the berries from your garden sweeter than those from my garden. Big smile

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#360 - 2014-05-07 00:51:13 UTC
you're both equally awful, please stop