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[Summer 2014] Starbase tweaks

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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#21 - 2014-05-05 15:03:10 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.
    • I don't think this is sufficient.

    Is there any particular issue you are trying to avoid by keeping the storage on these arrays small? Wouldn't it be better just to make them big enough so that they aren't a massive pain to use?
    Plug in Baby
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #22 - 2014-05-05 15:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
    Nothing about a capital component lab so lowsec can build capitals that can compete with null?

    I heard such a lab with a large ME bonus was planned? Or is capital production going to null for sure now?

    This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #23 - 2014-05-05 15:05:36 UTC
    Bad Bobby wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.
    • I don't think this is sufficient.

    Is there any particular issue you are trying to avoid by keeping the storage on these arrays small? Wouldn't it be better just to make them big enough so that they aren't a massive pain to use?



    ME0 Erebus with crappy component BP is right under 55,000,000m3. I suggest we start there !!

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    FFGR
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #24 - 2014-05-05 15:05:51 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    We are giving all assembly arrays a 2% material reduction to manufactured products (except for the Supercapital Assembly Array, since there is no station competition when building super capital ships).


    Rapid Equipment Assembly Array and Equipment Assembly Array will now have the same ME reduction, while Rapid will make products faster.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #25 - 2014-05-05 15:06:32 UTC
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Nothing about a capital component lab so lowsec can build capitals that can compete with null?

    I heard such a lab with a large ME bonus was planned? Or is capital production going to null for sure now?



    That will have a miner effect compared to the 10% mineral advantage null will have on lowsec, plus the 5% ME for the amarr stations

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    Bad Bobby
    Bring Me Sunshine
    In Tea We Trust
    #26 - 2014-05-05 15:11:26 UTC
    Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
    Bad Bobby wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.
    • I don't think this is sufficient.

    Is there any particular issue you are trying to avoid by keeping the storage on these arrays small? Wouldn't it be better just to make them big enough so that they aren't a massive pain to use?



    ME0 Erebus with crappy component BP is right under 55,000,000m3. I suggest we start there !!

    You are going to love making that with 5 run BPCs.
    Bakuhz
    NED-Clan
    Goonswarm Federation
    #27 - 2014-05-05 15:11:54 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello people,

    As mentioned during the various Fanfest panels and round tables, I'm going to list here the various changes planned to Starbases for Summer that are being discussed on the Building Better Worlds Blog feedback.


    First, regarding Assembly Arrays:


    • We are giving all assembly arrays a 2% material reduction to manufactured products (except for the Supercapital Assembly Array, since there is no station competition when building super capital ships).
    • Advanced Assembly arrays no longer 10% have material waste. They now all have 2% material reduction like their regular counterparts.
    • X-Large Assembly Array is being renamed Capital Assembly Array to better reflect what it actually does.
    • Capital Assembly Array is being renamed Supercapital Assembly Array for the same reasons.


      • We are planning to increase cargo capacity on the following Assembly Arrays:

    • Corporate Hangar Arrays: from 1,400,000 m3 to 3,000,000 m3.
    • Ammunition Assembly Array: from 150,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
    • Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.
    • Drone Assembly Array: from 150,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
    • Equipment Assembly Array: from 500,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
    • Rapid Equipment Assembly Array: from 500,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.


    Then, laboratories:


    Mobile labs:
    Time multiplier for Research ME: 0.7 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for Research TE: 0.7 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for copying: 0.7 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for invention: 0.45 (was 0.5).

    Advanced Mobile labs:
    Time multiplier for Research ME: 0.75 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for copying: 0.6 (was 0.65).
    Time multiplier for invention: 0.5 (was 0.5).

    Hyasyoda mobile labs:
    Time multiplier for Research ME: 0.65 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for Research TE: 0.65 (was 0.75).
    Time multiplier for invention: 0.45 (was 0.5).


    So how about upscaling the ammount of slots in the labs aswell to compete with the no slots in station?
    if ownign a starbase and producing stuff within own resources we should get a bit more then those patetic amateur sized research and inventions slots now!!!!

    https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #28 - 2014-05-05 15:13:02 UTC
    Has there been any internal discussion about how scaling costs will work in a POS that can be shared?

    A reminder -- I had an excellent suggestion on how to scale the costs without murdering the server. tl;dr: count the total number of structures for the manufacturing type owned by your corp in the system and scale based on that.

    Regarding component assembly arrays, if there is a limiting factor on their maximum size (pos fuel? T2 comps?) perhaps make a separate capital component array for building cap comps.

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #29 - 2014-05-05 15:15:23 UTC
    Bakuhz wrote:

    So how about upscaling the ammount of slots in the labs aswell to compete with the no slots in station?
    if ownign a starbase and producing stuff within own resources we should get a bit more then those patetic amateur sized research and inventions slots now!!!!



    They removed ALL slots

    That means NOTHING has slots

    Did I mention, NO SLOTS

    NONE
    ON ANYTHING


    NO MORE SLOTS

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    Borsek
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #30 - 2014-05-05 15:17:18 UTC
    Swiftstrike1 wrote:
    Why are the Advanced Mobile Labs slower at ME research and Invention than the standard mobile labs?


    Advanced labs are for mass copying, normal labs are for research and invention iirc.
    Plug in Baby
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #31 - 2014-05-05 15:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
    Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Nothing about a capital component lab so lowsec can build capitals that can compete with null?

    I heard such a lab with a large ME bonus was planned? Or is capital production going to null for sure now?



    That will have a miner effect compared to the 10% mineral advantage null will have on lowsec, plus the 5% ME for the amarr stations


    That is the point the advantage of null refine and ME bonus was supposed to be able to offset by using a POS arrray in low. I cant find a source for this but I'll try and link it when I find it.

    Without one there is no way lowsec can compete with 200-300m cheaper caps per unit from null for the small price of a jumping them to lowsec to sell. Unless there are some amazing teams to give a huge bonus, but there is no reason to think they wouldn't also be used in null.

    This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #32 - 2014-05-05 15:18:35 UTC
    Borsek wrote:
    Swiftstrike1 wrote:
    Why are the Advanced Mobile Labs slower at ME research and Invention than the standard mobile labs?


    Advanced labs are for mass copying, normal labs are for research and invention iirc.



    Drop and advanced and a Hyasoda and BLAM - done - almost as good as a 70bil caldari T3 station

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #33 - 2014-05-05 15:21:42 UTC
    Ulrich Cadalene wrote:
    Are assembly arrays going to be keeping their base 0.75 manufacturing time multiplier?


    Yes.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #34 - 2014-05-05 15:22:15 UTC
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Nothing about a capital component lab so lowsec can build capitals that can compete with null?

    I heard such a lab with a large ME bonus was planned? Or is capital production going to null for sure now?



    That will have a miner effect compared to the 10% mineral advantage null will have on lowsec, plus the 5% ME for the amarr stations


    That is the point the advantage of null refine and ME bonus was supposed to be able to offset by using a POS arrray in low. I cant find a source for this but I'll try and link it when I find it.

    Without one there is no way lowsec can compete with 200-300m cheaper caps per unit from null for the small price of a jumping them to lowsec to sell. Unless there are some amazing teams to give a huge bonus, but there is no reason to think they wouldn't also be used in null.


    Low sec has a POS array that is better than high sec, and worse than null sec 70Bil minnie station, all assembly arrays are the same ME modifier

    so null > low > high sec
    I am pretty sure that is where it is supposed to be..

    Do you want a low sec only assembly array with an extra 10% ME to make up for the better mineral refine rate in null??

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    Bad Bobby
    Bring Me Sunshine
    In Tea We Trust
    #35 - 2014-05-05 15:22:56 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Regarding component assembly arrays, if there is a limiting factor on their maximum size (pos fuel? T2 comps?) perhaps make a separate capital component array for building cap comps.

    Or allow us to build Capital Components at a Capital Assembly Array? That would be much more useable from a capital producers point of view.
    Ulrich Cadalene
    Ulrich Cadalene Corp
    #36 - 2014-05-05 15:24:12 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Ulrich Cadalene wrote:
    Are assembly arrays going to be keeping their base 0.75 manufacturing time multiplier?


    Yes.


    Thanks.
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #37 - 2014-05-05 15:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Uncle Shrimpa
    Bad Bobby wrote:
    Querns wrote:
    Regarding component assembly arrays, if there is a limiting factor on their maximum size (pos fuel? T2 comps?) perhaps make a separate capital component array for building cap comps.

    Or allow us to build Capital Components at a Capital Assembly Array? That would be much more useable from a capital producers point of view.


    EDIT - NO

    2% ME bonus on CAA


    Fix CAA

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
    MasterMag
    Melons and Bananas
    #38 - 2014-05-05 15:26:13 UTC
    Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
    Plug in Baby wrote:
    Nothing about a capital component lab so lowsec can build capitals that can compete with null?

    I heard such a lab with a large ME bonus was planned? Or is capital production going to null for sure now?



    That will have a miner effect compared to the 10% mineral advantage null will have on lowsec, plus the 5% ME for the amarr stations


    That is the point the advantage of null refine and ME bonus was supposed to be able to offset by using a POS arrray in low. I cant find a source for this but I'll try and link it when I find it.

    Without one there is no way lowsec can compete with 200-300m cheaper caps per unit from null for the small price of a jumping them to lowsec to sell. Unless there are some amazing teams to give a huge bonus, but there is no reason to think they wouldn't also be used in null.


    Low sec has a POS array that is better than high sec, and worse than null sec 70Bil minnie station, all assembly arrays are the same ME modifier

    so null > low > high sec
    I am pretty sure that is where it is supposed to be..

    Do you want a low sec only assembly array with an extra 10% ME to make up for the better mineral refine rate in null??


    Would be nice that the lowsec capital component array could offset the fuel costs and still remain mostly competitive with nullsec, because it is a lot more vulnerable than your one-time seventy billion isk investment secured snugly in your blue donut.
    Gilbaron
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2014-05-05 15:34:47 UTC
    i second the build cap components in cap ship array proposal thingie.

    make it so !
    Uncle Shrimpa
    Lap Dancers
    Brothers of Tangra
    #40 - 2014-05-05 15:39:42 UTC
    Gilbaron wrote:
    i second the build cap components in cap ship array proposal thingie.

    make it so !



    Wait, hold on.....NO

    CAA has the 2% ME bonus

    CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)