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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
#981 - 2014-04-14 00:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasril Pux
To those of you who keep saying a drone boat that can use all the drones is overlapping the Ishtar (that includes you DEVs), I say a drone boat that can use all the drones does not an overlap make.

It's a drone boat, a Guristas, missile slinging brick ****house of a shield-tanking drone boat. It should be able to use all the drones just as effectively as any other drone boat.

Just because a Vigilant uses medium hybrid turrets, that doesn't mean it "overlaps" the Deimos, and so we should give it one gun that does 1000% more damage to make it different.

Subtle differences in ships are difference enough for me. I never called for anyone to change the Ishtar because it's too close in capability to the Gila, even though it's often considered "superior." How would you like to see the Ishtar lose access to sentry drones and full flights of... anything?

Why should I have to roll over and be either forced into a different role or told to 'please consider another option, thanks!' other than my favorite ship.

If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#982 - 2014-04-14 00:41:28 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Why not improve the shields and close range missile damage instead of specializing Guristas into medium and heavy drones that nobody wants to use? Nobody could be angry with you for that.

If you are going to force us into specialized drones, the drones need the ability to teleport instantly back to the drone bay.



I would be . THere is a very limited flavor and usefulnes son yet another missile brawling ship. At least the ptoposal brign s new things.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#983 - 2014-04-14 00:43:34 UTC
Hasril Pux wrote:
To those of you who keep saying a drone boat that can use all the drones is overlapping the Ishtar (that includes you DEVs), I say a drone boat that can use all the drones does not an overlap make.

It's a drone boat, a Guristas, missile slinging brick ****house of a shield-tanking drone boat. It should be able to use all the drones just as effectively as any other drone boat.

Just because a Vigilant uses medium hybrid turrets, that doesn't mean it "overlaps" the Deimos, and so we should give it one gun that does 1000% more damage to make it different.

Subtle differences in ships are difference enough for me. I never called for anyone to change the Ishtar because it's too close in capability to the Gila, even though it's often considered "superior." How would you like to see the Ishtar lose access to sentry drones and full flights of... anything?

Why should I have to roll over and be either forced into a different role or told to 'please consider another option, thanks!' other than my favorite ship.



Your example is HORRIBLE. You lack the understandign or is trolling.

Old gila DOES overlap with ishtar. DEimos and Vigilant have VASLTY different bonuses.

The change to the gila makes it even STROGNER than before with medium droens at the cost of not being able to use sentries. ITs called specialization. On your example making 1 gun do 10 tiems the base damage is nto specializaiton because theend result would be same as with more guns and less bonus.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#984 - 2014-04-14 00:43:38 UTC
Gargep Farrow wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:




Maybe the problem isn't that devs play the game so much as their closed minded opinions on how the game should be played by others.


Sorry to cut your post down to such a small snippet, but the above if expanded it covers the main problem Eve has. Its not just the devs, its a good portion of the players also. "My play style is right and yours is wrong" is way too prevalent in the game. This also makes the idea of polling players on new changes almost worthless as 1 group will love a change and another will hate it with a passion. Well there is the "if both sides a bitching it must be a good change" option, but that can backfire badly


CCP I presume have professional marketing staff who would be quite capable of wording a poll so as to get the information. As with any change, even with 100% support it can backfire and be terribly wrong. I think it is better than being dictated to though.

Arrow The main problem is, Devs may say they want feedback but really - look at this snip from a previous "feedback" thread and see how much leaving feedback is likely to achieve.
Quote:
but the precedents set in the frigate pass
And this is why. Yet another line of ship changes - As yet unable to be tested by players, set in stone. So leaving feedback on the cruiser line is pointless - The Precedent, right or wrong, for the proposed changes has been set. Players really have no say and once again need to adapt (change) their game play to suit a Devs idea of what is good.
Quote:
Look forward to hearing from you o/
Is pure lip service, time and again he has shown he is not interested in any feedback unless it agrees with his position.

PS; I know Rise is not solely responsible for these changes but as with anyone who takes on the role of spokesperson for something, he is publicly responsible. A good designer he may be, dealing with "paying" public is another thing entirely.
Quite simply CCP Rise, step back and let someone else interact in the forums on your teams behalf - Continually showing such a lack of respect for players is not good. Oh and simply ignoring something only shows a lack of professionalism..


CCP may own the rights to EveOnline but really, it belongs to its players, don't keep trying to turn us into mushrooms

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#985 - 2014-04-14 01:08:13 UTC
Bring on the battleships!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#986 - 2014-04-14 01:16:59 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Bring on the battleships!

The battleships are already here;
Quote:
but the precedents set in the frigate pass
Just go up 1 more ship size from cruisers

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#987 - 2014-04-14 01:24:43 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
The battleships are already here;

Were the new Pirate Battleship changes posted?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#988 - 2014-04-14 01:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
The battleships are already here;

Were the new Pirate Battleship changes posted?


Don't be so obtuse.

They can be fairly easily inferred from the cruiser changes. The Vindi stays the same, probably loses some grid. The Bhaalgorn gets a web range bonus (which will be beyond evil) and probably also loses some grid, the Machariel gets *** *****, the Nightmare will be a jumbled mix of concepts, and the Nestor is still the worst ship in the game.

All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while.

But whether you agree or disagree with the design philosophy being put into place so far, this the cruiser thread. So stay on topic and talk about the cruisers.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#989 - 2014-04-14 01:40:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while.

Start of next week, which is… oh, right about now. Stay on topic? You mean like the nth "why I hate the new Gila" post? I think it's fairly obvious that the Gila drone changes are fixed in stone. The lack of dev response is one indication, but the more glaring reason would be the lack of any changes to the Worm in the Pirate Frigates thread. I for one welcome our new Gila overlords!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#990 - 2014-04-14 02:18:04 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while.

Start of next week, which is… oh, right about now. Stay on topic? You mean like the nth "why I hate the new Gila" post? I think it's fairly obvious that the Gila drone changes are fixed in stone. The lack of dev response is one indication, but the more glaring reason would be the lack of any changes to the Worm in the Pirate Frigates thread. I for one welcome our new Gila overlords!


And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.

You do realize they won't post it on the weekend, right? It will likely show up around 1500 GMT, so about 12 hours. I suggest checking the EVE subreddit, those people have no lives at all and the thread being posted will pop up there in about a minute and a half.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#991 - 2014-04-14 02:23:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.

Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"… But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#992 - 2014-04-14 02:31:25 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.

Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"… But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake.


Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game.

I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#993 - 2014-04-14 03:03:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times.

Sentry drones are more of an issue on the Rattlesnake, since it's primarily a PvE boat.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#994 - 2014-04-14 03:14:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.

Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"… But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake.


Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game.

I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times.

I'd be curious as to how you feel the Gila will become "excellent". Aside from possibly being able to brawl in a gang with plenty of tackle.
The beauty of the Gila has always been its versatility, it will no longer be as versatile.

If the Ishtar was limited to 2 medium drones would it still be usable in the same fashion or roles as it is now?
If the Domi only had 2 heavy drones would that be acceptable?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#995 - 2014-04-14 03:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Thorm
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.

Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"… But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake.


Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game.

I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times.


I agree that there is a lot of overreaction to the Gila changes, but I want to point out that some people, like me, aren't claiming that the Gila will definitely be bad if the current proposed changes go through, just that it will be boring and too niche.

I also agree with those who have pointed out that differentiating it from the Ishtar is an weak reason to change the Gila so dramatically.

I also agree, to some extent, with those who have claimed that such a dramatic change in function is very frustrating for those players who have invested significant skillpoints into the Gila.

I also say that it would not be difficult at all to make the Gila capable of the role CCP is currently pushing on it (medium drone specialist) without limiting it to that role alone. I usually refrain from posting numbers, because I'm not a developer, but just as an example:

Caldari Cruiser:
4% to all shield resistance

Gallente Cruiser:
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints
25% Kinetic and Thermal missile damage

Drones (bandwidth / bay) 50 / 200

The above bonuses fit the racial specializations better, smooth the skillpoint curve of the ship between its weapon systems, and allow specialization in medium drones without limiting versatility as much as the current changes. My numbers may not be prefect, but I would much rather see the Guristas go in this direction than in the (currently proposed) very limited one.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#996 - 2014-04-14 03:22:42 UTC
Heretic!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2014-04-14 04:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: KaDa en Bauldry
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Your example is HORRIBLE. You lack the understandign or is trolling.
And what if he compared the Vaga to the Cyna? Autocannons and speed for both, yet none of them is made something vastly different.
(Picked it at random, since people complained here anything the Cyna does the Vaga does better.)

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#998 - 2014-04-14 04:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Other than drone-related changes for the Gila, does this adequately summarize player-suggested tweaks?

• Gila; +5 mbit bandwidth so it can field a full flight of light drones
• Vigilant; reduction or elimination of the PG nerf
• Cynnabal; reduction or elimination of the PG nerf

Everyone generally seems to be happy with the Ashimmu and Phantasm and the increase of cargo space on all. With the exception of the PG nerfs, the Cynnabal and Vigilant are fine as is (warp speed bonus is a plus for the Cynnabal), and the Gila is a mixed bag of snakes (particularly due to the controversial drone changes). Did I miss anything?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#999 - 2014-04-14 04:34:12 UTC
not sure if the code can support this change but why not limit gurista ships to just 2 hardcapped drones launched ie
worm - 2 lights
gila - 2 lights or 2 meds
rattler - 2 lights or 2 meds or 2 heavys
wouldn't that fix most of the complains ?
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1000 - 2014-04-14 04:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Vinyl 41 wrote:
not sure if the code can support this change but why not limit gurista ships to just 2 hardcapped drones launched

I've got a better idea… Since the Gurista ships now grant a Gallente missile bonus, let's just drop the drones and make these missile boats. Give them another 2 launchers and a +50% missile velocity role bonus. I would then welcome our new Gurista overlords...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.