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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
#681 - 2014-04-09 04:01:41 UTC
The Phantasm is my favorite PvE ship. In high and low sec it use it routinely for ratting.

While the changes mean making fitting changes, I can deal with that, I have already tried about a dozen fits. I am going to have to increases some fitting skills to get to the point where the extra low slot is useful. The loss of the high either means dropping a laser or carrying a mobile tractor. With a 250 m3 hold - the tractor means a very tight cargo space for loot and salvage. More returns to base during runs to drop loot.

The extra speed is nice, the AB bonus, too - but with the Grid and CPU where they are, I probably will not fit an AB, at least until I get my skills up.

I may when it is all said and done revert to a destroyer for high sec ratting and park my Phantasm for a couple of months.

5 more points of CPU and 5 of Grid would open some real possibilities for folks who are not max'ed on skills.

But wait - I am talking about PvE...........so never mind......balancing is about max skill players and PvP.

Silly me.
Skarlet Hate
Angels of Ecstasy
#682 - 2014-04-09 04:30:25 UTC
Devs hate Angel Cartel ships. Nerf it more.
Chiana Moro
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#683 - 2014-04-09 05:58:10 UTC
And that is how you kill the Cynabal.

Looking forward to my gate camping Ash though, when I get back in game.
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#684 - 2014-04-09 06:37:05 UTC
The ashimmu loses options with this "buff". Now, it can fit in a cool way some pimp neuts and noses, getting a range of around 20km for everything: 90% webs, scorch, point, and cap warfare.

After the buff, it can web targets in warp before pointing them... Yay... Unless it has a pimpy point and links, but it can't hurt that far anyways unless it comes in its target's web range, and has lost the web advantage. For fleet work it's overshadowed by all kinds of other ships.

Basically it loses its already tiny role - exactly like the cruor. Please just give them both a serpentis level damage bonus. Serpentis hurt armor, and BRs hurt shields. In this way, it'll be clear that some of the pirate lines have a role around speed+dps (angels, sansha), some around dps+utility (serps, BRs) and the guristas around dps+tank.

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#685 - 2014-04-09 06:50:42 UTC
Let's see the Pirate battleships already and get this over with...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#686 - 2014-04-09 06:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Yep...

The Ashimmu and the Vigilant has had their already tiny roles reduced even further. Now there are other ships that can perform just as good or better which @ a cheaper price tag.

You can get the same fit for the Vigi by losing some of it's already small tank. The Ashimmu ability to hold down a target at range until support arrives has now fallen away. I do wonder sometimes if the dev play the same game we do.

I am now waiting to see if these so called "Buffs" have been taken to the Battleship line as well.

EDIT: And before people say they did and link youtube vids... These ships are not Talos.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#687 - 2014-04-09 06:58:48 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Let's see the Pirate battleships already and get this over with...

i got hyped by the idea of a passive rattler with heavy drone focus for missions Bear
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#688 - 2014-04-09 07:46:16 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Hooti Yasunaga wrote:
Hey CCP RIse

Would it be possible to get a response to the many comments calling for a nerf of 90% webs in this thread which you appear to have so far over looked?

Thanks

Read the forums more. It's been said, flat out, the 90% webs are NOT leaving the Serpentis Line. The goal of the pirate lines is to make all pirate faction ships AS good as the Serpentis line, not nerf them into the ground because you don't know how to keep range.



Quick name 5 ships appreciably faster than a daredevil

dramiel, stiletto, slasher, claw, atron, ares....
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#689 - 2014-04-09 07:57:10 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt wrote:
What's the reason CCP decided neutrons can't be fitted in vigilant? Give up pg penalty.


Neutrons fit fine. With ions you can even fit double 1600 plate

[Vigilant, New Setup 2]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


I only see a resulting nerf of ~20% buffer and 5% dps/ bit more range being lost.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#690 - 2014-04-09 08:15:29 UTC
Xequecal wrote:

I'm pretty sure that the Gila will output more drone DPS against T3s than an Ishtar with Ogres. Even with a tracking bonus, Ogres will not apply full DPS to cruisers.


Ishtar Ogre IIs do apply full dps to cruisers. Even without an Omni or webs.



SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#691 - 2014-04-09 08:24:07 UTC
The new Cynabal changes are "Better" but still
it gets thrown under the bus losing that much PG is way to much. From my own perspective i will not use it with the current suggestions the fitting issue is way to heavy to just have faster warp speeds.

adding a bonus to Webbing resistance for say 10-15% would be one way above the change to make them more unique from the mimatar.
and webbing exist in pve so its not totaly wased there also.

To bad your not going down the route of allowing MWD while scram on them instead that would have been so neat for a hit and run faction as Angels.




the Gila is still a problem with only "Medium drones"
I would want to see it something like this

25 Bandwith

300% drone dammage (universal)
500% medium drone dammage
increase medium drone bandwith usage by 10% (11 instead of 10 to prevent 2 med + 1 light combo)

that way

a# you could deploy 1 sentry drone or 1 heavy drone with reduced efficiency
b# you could deploy 2 Medium drones with full efficiency
c# you could deploy 5 light drones with reduced efficiency

now that would give us both flexibility and specialization
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#692 - 2014-04-09 08:25:16 UTC
The vigilant and the cynabal didn't really need nerfing seeing how the other pirate faction cruisers are getting buffed quit a lot.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
May Ke
Maxxim Heavy Industries Inc.
#693 - 2014-04-09 08:34:48 UTC
Well done. You've killed the Cynabal. I hate you. That was my favorite ship, now it's nerfed. 25% reduction in PG?
I seem to remember you doing the same thing with the Hurricane in the first pass of rebalancing, then brought out the Navy Cane which was the same as the old cane, we just had to pay more for it.
Do you have a new version of the Cynabal coming out, that will be more expensive, but the same ship as we have now.

I hate you. You've screwed up my favorite ship... again.

Who? Me?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#694 - 2014-04-09 09:25:01 UTC
May Ke wrote:
Well done. You've killed the Cynabal. I hate you. That was my favorite ship, now it's nerfed. 25% reduction in PG?
I seem to remember you doing the same thing with the Hurricane in the first pass of rebalancing, then brought out the Navy Cane which was the same as the old cane, we just had to pay more for it.
Do you have a new version of the Cynabal coming out, that will be more expensive, but the same ship as we have now.

I hate you. You've screwed up my favorite ship... again.



But look at the bright side. You can now call yourself a "bitter vet" without a hint of irony. Any one can be a veteran, but to be truly bitter you have to have CCP smash your dream and break your toys.


Now get in line with all the Amarr pilots who had to train missiles and drones and learn to love the CruiseGeddon
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#695 - 2014-04-09 09:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rab See
Yup - when we gaze across this group of ships, we will muse that they all got something interesting.

Vigi - ultrauberwebs - no massive change

Ashimu - uberwebs/vamp - nice change

Gila - small gang swarm for 1 - lovely

Phantasm - afterburning heaven.

Cynabal, well, take a Vaga, Ruppy, Stabber/FI, ScyFI, hell, take a Bellicose. Cynabal is gone, not forgotten.

Seriously, give me ANY cruiser EVER, please CCP, can you give me one example of a ship fitted with warp rigs (there is no other real way to improve your warp speed). I stated that you could mess it up more with a Target Painting bonus, but you've picked the obscure and shined this turd.

ITs the one thing we see with Minmatar ships generally, poor bonuses because their ewar is useful in one case, and useless in the other case, and you know it because the screams of laughter if you put it onto a decent ship would be instant. There are no pirate ships that use TPs, thankfully.

Given how agile T1 cruisers have got, how fast they've got, how cheap they are, I wouldn't risk a Cynabal 'getting there first' just to die quickly to a pair of these. The rest of the gang trundle behind you laughing at the new 'diemost'.
Crysantos Callahan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#696 - 2014-04-09 10:28:41 UTC
First of all, thanks for the feedback Rise.

But maybe you could tweak the Gila a bit, too. I get the idea to have cruiser vs. cruiser drone beast focused on medium drones, comparted to the frigate focused worm. But it doesn't make sense to limit its drone set to 4 light drones. I'd love to see a bonus to light drones, too - at least a 25% buff to hp and dmg to make up for the lost fifth drone. But why not even go one step further and make it at least a 50% bonus?

Comparing it to the ishtar, which is also a dual bonus drone boat (heavies and sentries) this would create the counterpart for small ships.

I like the idea of a faster warp cynabal, which fits into the pattern people used it before, too. If you don't feel comfortable with the high PG that people could use to fit xl asb or whatever, just give the damn ship a pg need bonus for arties :-)
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#697 - 2014-04-09 10:31:21 UTC
Icewolf7 wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


GILA

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
Sensor strength: 22
Signature radius: 145(-5)


Do you even use drones?

The Gila in its current version is a versatile ship but a little underpowered(Fitting wise), these changes however will effectively cut it out of all the Role's it currently can fill and add none that are practical.

So your going to turn the gila into a 2 medium drone boat with some extra missile damage? please find me 1 person who flies the Gila Now in pvp or pve that will continue to use it after these changes.

No more sentries? cant tower bash or snipe, no more heavies? No more close quarters brawling or structure grinding.

No drone boat exclusively uses Medium drones unless that's the best it can field, they use lights, heavy's, sentries and sometimes ECM.


The only thing these changes will accomplish is no one will continuously fly the Gila anymore past the 1st one they lose.


Need an alternative?
First leave the drone's alone or maybe a slight nerf if needed to compensate for missile dmg buff (100 bandwidth from 125)

Imagine a Gila that had 4 Heavy's and 4 Heavy assault Missile launchers OR 4 sentries with 4 Heavy missile launcher

Fix the fittings to allow a decent missile SND tank load out.

Add some maneuverability to it, like the phantasm AB changes.


This may turn out to be way better suited to the gila than you think.
Try to get beyond the word medium. What this actually is with the damage bonus etc etc is a ship that fields a flight of drones with the damage of a flight of heavies, but faster, harder to hit, and better with tracking. It will be wonderful as you will be maneverable and fast rather than being forced to orbit your sentries.

It suits the character of a cruiser much much better, if they did this to all my cruisers, i would be delighted it would particuarly suit the stratios too. Sentries are great because heavies are a nightmare, this gives you around the power without the downside.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mihnea Tepes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#698 - 2014-04-09 11:03:07 UTC
well Ashimmu has very specific role with its web efficiency, if i will want to have long range webs, i will take loki or i will take any other cheap crui under links

somehow im missing the point of this rebalance, especially after i saw improvements on HACs (and comparing their prices - its almost the same, comparing their quality - its frustrating)
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#699 - 2014-04-09 11:08:22 UTC
GILA

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

CYNABAL

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

The roleplaying community must really love this Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Mihnea Tepes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#700 - 2014-04-09 11:14:13 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
GILA

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

CYNABAL

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

The roleplaying community must really love this Cool


Yes indeed :D

this whole Summer change seems to me like April joke