Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I disagree with this. Of course there will be an outcry when you propose to nerf someones favourite toy, but that shouldn't prevent you from making the right balance decision.

I feel a bit annoyed that experienced players would make an outcry for selfish reasons without the general balance of the game being taken into consideration. Throwing their toys out the pram just because they wont be able to insta kill frigates with dreadnoughts is quite pathetic.

Personally, webs are very strong, I think they should be bought down to a maximum of 50% strength for the T2 web. And it is simply bad mechanics that a single ship can effectively take the whole speed/transveral/positioning aspect of pvp out of the picture, and makes for a very boring experience.

Alright, here's my 2 worthless cents about the changes. A vigilant in its current form is only slightly used for standard combat fleets, most cruiser fleets I have attended don't like bringing a vigilant because of the fact that it has a high cost value and is the first primary with a relatively low tank. A Deimos can do about 76% the dps of a Vigilant with about 50% extra EHP for 78% the cost and for that reason, they are flown more often in fleet combat then Vigilants. The Vigilant has extreme fitting restrictions as it is already, you either have to go with a M4 plate, mwd and neutrons ( notice the lack of a cap booster, can easily be capped out ) or fit an ANC rig to get a small cap booster, t2 plate and neutrons, hurting it's already minimal tank. A Vexor Navy issue can push out 800 dps, have 56.5k EHP and cost under 130m. The VNI has 91.4% the dps with 124% the EHP for 46.4% the cost. What we are more commonly seeing is Vexor and VNI fleets roaming about with RR packed into theirs highs solving the logistics issue as well. Vigilants are not as over powered as they are claimed to be, this statement is true when you consider their most common role is just heavy suicide tackler.
Cynabal changes, powergrid nerf still hurts armor Cynabals and the warp speed addition is a strange addition. The warp speed change will help with solo combat but in fleet combat it will more commonly get the Cynabal killed as it will land first with a ( relatively ) weak tank while waiting for it's fleet to catch up. If the main reason for this change is because of the Arty Cynny, consider another way to change the cynabal around without killing it's ability to be shield or armor tanked. Cynabals were the king of kiting in the days gone past, but in these "modern" times a vagabond easily out performs the Cynabal in everything but armor tanking and even then, the Cynabal barely out performs the vagabond.
Ashimmu, real nice changes and I have no complaints.
Gila, slightly lower damage then before, with a strange drone class for it's primary weapon. Usage will probably decline after the first week and it will require another pass-over.
Phantasm will replace the cynabal as the king of kiting.

If anyone has a different opinion, I'm open to hear it.

Presumably they are still deciding on the exact bonus.

but with less copy and pasting and typos please :)

I agree, I haven't made much use of serpentis web bonuses, but all the rage in this thread makes me want to go give it a try now. If ship features (in this case, web bonus) can't stand out in meaningful ways, then why bother with this balancing work in the first place? "Moving everything towards a middle ground" as you put it is what most games do, and reduces true variety to a mere illusion of variety.

Also, I'm a little unclear on where the Cynabal stands now. Giving it a warp speed bonus feels a big gimmicky. Gimmicky is fine as long as this token bonus isn't being used to justify a nerf elsewhere. If you're doing fleet warps, it'll be a moot point point 90% of the time. I can't say that warp speed comes up too often in our PvP postmortems.

The cynabal really doesn't need to be nerfed, at least no one here seems to think so. Is the idea is to just move it out of the spotlight a bit to give other ships a larger chunk of the mindshare?

So what? The Gila get's to join load of other ships in the game that are vulnerable to frigates. In exchange it's going to be pretty brutal against other cruisers.

Is it just me that seems to think all the Gila pilots here seem to want something that can do everything solo? Eg massively tanky, does huge missile dps, can use sentries to hit hard at 50+km whilst also being able to tear apart frigates? You can't have everything guys. Many ships in this game have some weaknesses vs certain other classes yet that doesn't stop them being great fun and highly affective in other situations.

New Gila is going to be great fun. If you want the drone options the old Gila had - fly an Ishtar.

Exactly. The Gila now turns into "something I would not fly anymore after I trained Ishtar" to something different from Ishtar lol. I have a Gila i haven't flown in ages and that sucker is getting dusted off.

I read the first 90% web thread wise mentioned last night and it appeared that most of the outcry originated from Suddenly Spaceship pilots who wanted to be able to titan bridge larger fleets in their vindicators so they could say they had fought outnumbered, presumably whilst rolfstomping whoever they bridged. The thread just turned into a farce because of their posts and trolling.

I'd like to think the dev team have the strength of character to balance this bonus, despite the objections of the people who want to continue abusing it. No one in this thread that I've noticed is suggesting that the web bonus be removed from the serp hulls, were just suggesting changes that could be made to give the hulls and the webs balance and prevent the bonus from being so absurdly OP.

What's going to happen to the Nightmare?

basically reddit and the council of nullsec are all awful. pls fix webs.
you should know how people are in this game - JF owners will tell you JFs aren't broken, people who use ASBs will tell you that ASBs are fine.