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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
Coyote Laughing
#881 - 2014-05-04 18:24:40 UTC
DarthMopp wrote:
[quote=Promiscuous Female]
Hey, stop it, i am married...noones calling me treasure except for my wife, honey.


The stories I could tell you about married people . . . but I won't.

In any case, the local chat in the trade hubs always seems to find a new disgusting (and entertaining) low every time I'm doing my shopping.

l8r \o/

Drake Antharos
Nexus Vex
#882 - 2014-05-05 13:19:06 UTC
Will this drone overhaul be in Kronos? If not, do we have at least a known month?
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#883 - 2014-05-05 13:30:10 UTC
Here is another post bitching about how you've wasted my training time, and how I'll probably be bitter about it for months on end if you don't fix your error.

Remove Combat Drone V from the equation all together and refund us the SP.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#884 - 2014-05-05 16:41:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.

I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.

Drone specializations could work like -
Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry)
Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase
Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage
Level 4, adds 5% damage
Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.

Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class.
So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1.
T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.

This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage.


the unlocks will now be as you have described.....
however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V

And there in lies my issue. Right now I have maxed sentry drone skills for all 4 factions. Post patch I will have less than perfect skills for Gardes and Bouncers due to drone specializations only being at 4 and even worse for Wardens and Curators which both specializations are at 2 and 3 respectively.
This equates to an additional 80+ days of training to get 'back' to where I am currently.
I rarely use heavy drones and don't see this changing post update, so this change significantly marrs my ability to use both my Ishtar and more so with the Super Drone creation my Rattlesnake.

Oh and for those who would say- Just train them up, I already have over 7 mil SP in drones and don't feel I should LOSE the benefit from what I already have trained because CCP wants to change things.


So you feel you should have max-skilled sentries without having to train the max skills? Roll

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Mirkali Maricadie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#885 - 2014-05-05 19:43:02 UTC
I have a question for the CCP Devs concerning the skill split, as I'm currently advising our young Newbees on training before the Summer Expansion.

Combat Drone Operation requires Drones III trained, while Scout Drone Operation requires Drones II trained. You've already said that, during the split, you'll give the person the same levels in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as their highest level. But will it check for pre-reqs? If the person in question has Drones II trained, but has Scout Drone Operation trained to V, might the skill split fail to give them Medium Drone Operation at Level V due to a missing pre-req (assuming Medium Drone Operation will inherit the Drones III pre-req from Combat Drone Operation)?

Or will the skill split even take pre-reqs into account at all?

Thanks!

(I'm just currently advising them to train Drones to III, but I just want to make sure on the offchance that I get some random Newbee confused about this)
Raely Reborn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#886 - 2014-05-06 03:36:04 UTC
Will drone rigs like tracking, durability, and speed affect fighter/fighter bombers?

Will you be adding a drone implant category?

Any plans to edit the existing rig or add new rig(s) to provide damage increases for each class of drone (not just sentry)?

o7
Atrium Akvidus
NOOBIAN UNION
Bright Side of Death
#887 - 2014-05-06 10:52:24 UTC
Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates

Doesnt it mean a huge nerf for armor supercarriers, which will have to take a big impact on their tank to fit Drone Damage amps to reach the DPS they have atm?
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#888 - 2014-05-06 11:15:52 UTC
Are the stats for the Gecko fixed, or will it be receiving a damage/speed boost in line with other heavies when these changes come out?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#889 - 2014-05-06 11:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Soldarius wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.

I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.

Drone specializations could work like -
Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry)
Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase
Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage
Level 4, adds 5% damage
Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.

Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class.
So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1.
T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.

This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage.


the unlocks will now be as you have described.....
however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V

And there in lies my issue. Right now I have maxed sentry drone skills for all 4 factions. Post patch I will have less than perfect skills for Gardes and Bouncers due to drone specializations only being at 4 and even worse for Wardens and Curators which both specializations are at 2 and 3 respectively.
This equates to an additional 80+ days of training to get 'back' to where I am currently.
I rarely use heavy drones and don't see this changing post update, so this change significantly marrs my ability to use both my Ishtar and more so with the Super Drone creation my Rattlesnake.

Oh and for those who would say- Just train them up, I already have over 7 mil SP in drones and don't feel I should LOSE the benefit from what I already have trained because CCP wants to change things.


So you feel you should have max-skilled sentries without having to train the max skills? Roll

Well as I currently have max skills for the drones I use (Sentries) and the way I use them - YES
Why should I lose Dps and face 80 days additional training because CCP wants to change the skill requirements, just to get back to what i have now.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#890 - 2014-05-06 15:53:11 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Well as I currently have max skills for the drones I use (Sentries) and the way I use them - YES
Why should I lose Dps and face 80 days additional training because CCP wants to change the skill requirements, just to get back to what i have now.


this
after the changes my sentries should be doing just as much damage as they do now without me doing anything since I trained for them to do so
how would you feel if they added another 30day skill to use the t2 guns of your choice to the level you have them now

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#891 - 2014-05-07 06:03:50 UTC
I trained for Sentry drones and I can use t2 sentries.

I have not trained Amarr and Caldari Spec because they are mostly useless and I don't need them for sentries.

What happened to: "If you can use it then, you can use it now."

I don't care how long or short it will take to train to use them again.

If I trained to be able to use them now I should damn well be able to use them when the patch comes.

What you're doing is not going to fix the drone balance problem, you have two races of drones the Gallente and Minmatar which are specialized drones for Damage and Speed.

Amarr and Caldari drones are never used because they are just painly garbage. They have no real strengths to compensate for the weaknesses.

Trying to make them in-between jack-of-trades-master-of-none will not not encourage players to use them.

Drones are the only weapon system in the game that can be permanently destroyed until you get replacements, you can't do that to any other weapon system in the game. Of course they better have some real advantage over regular weapon system to compensate for the fact that they can be destroyed or lost.

Drones have to use million and million of SP to be great, but what do we have to show for it? A weapon system that is really only considered secondary and less than gunnery and missile system that take less sp and investment.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2014-05-08 05:55:22 UTC
It has never been if you can use it now you can use it then.. CCP have increased requirements for modules several times now.

The line has always been if you can FLY it now you can FLY it then..

Also, it's ~15min of training total for you to keep using your Sentries as you are.. so suck it up princess. If they made it so you needed to spec skill at V, then you'd have an argument.. 1 is nothing.
Au' Tena
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#893 - 2014-05-08 07:53:16 UTC
as a gallente pilot i would be more interrested in a mid slot damage amplifier then a low slot omni tracking enhancer, to be honest. low slot are always filled (sticking to t2 maximum).
Moor Deybe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#894 - 2014-05-08 12:19:01 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
It has never been if you can use it now you can use it then.. CCP have increased requirements for modules several times now.

The line has always been if you can FLY it now you can FLY it then..

Also, it's ~15min of training total for you to keep using your Sentries as you are.. so suck it up princess. If they made it so you needed to spec skill at V, then you'd have an argument.. 1 is nothing.

While you are correct that training the Racial Drone Specialization skills to I will allow people to still use T2 Sentries, the complaint that people quite rightly raise is that to get back their previous effectiveness i.e. DPS, it will almost certainly mean getting those skills to IV if not V.

I say almost certainly, because I don't know and CCP haven't specifically said.
What they have said is said is that Curators and Wardens will give a bit more damage and Bouncers and Gardes will have a bit less, with MAX SKILLS trained.

So if it turns out to require those Racial Drone Specializations training to V at 20 days each. to get the same DPS, then I think people have a valid complaint.

Would a PVPer be happy to train for 80 days to get the 20km range back on their Warp Disruptor?
Would a Trader be happy to train for 80 days to be able to get their Broker and Transaction taxes back down to where they were previously?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#895 - 2014-05-08 17:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Kadar Yassavi wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.

Maybe you should reimburse the skill points of the skill that won't be used for the convertion.

For example if I have Scout Drone Operation to V and Combat Drone Operation to IV, the new skills will be adjusted to my Scout Drone Operation skill level and the skillpoints of my Combat Drone Operation skill will go to the allocatable skillpoint pool. And if we have both at V currently of course you should reimburse the skillpoints of the higher ranked Combat Drone Operations (of course! :D).

That way it won't feel like you've wasted skill time in the past if you maxed both skills.

Hmm, so players who have trained up combat drone operation and scout drone operation will now be equal to someone who has only scout combat drone operation to V. As someone with both skills at V this sucks. Perhaps reimburse the SP in the one which is not used in the conversion as suggested in the post above.

Even worse, someone with combat drone operation at V, and scout drone operation at IV will be worse off than another player who spent less time training scout drone operation to V and combat drone operation to III.

Also someone who had trained combat drone operation to V to unlock the drone link augmentor will now no longer be able to use it seeing as it will be tied to a different skill.

To be honest the first set of changes were much clearer and made more sense Fozzie.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#896 - 2014-05-08 18:53:28 UTC
To everyone complaining their sentry DPS will be a bit lower post-patch, boo hoo.

Your absolute damage doesn't matter. Damage will come and go as the developers tune based on changes to meta. Unlike Blizzard who has tried to keep almost perfectly even power between their races, CCP has explicitly stated they will alter balance over time to keep the meta in flux and move in in a direction they like. Relative weapon system power will continually change.
Opa God
Northwest Industries International
#897 - 2014-05-08 22:17:38 UTC
More than one month since the last dev post in this thread. No answers on the questions that have arisen since then. On top of that this thread has gone unstickied.

The release date of the expansion is getting closer, too. Soon there won't be enough time to train the skills needed.

Will it be enough to have
-Scout Drone Operation 5
-Combat Drone Operation not injected
to receive the new skills?
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#898 - 2014-05-09 05:17:43 UTC
I'm sorry.. responding over how to get free SP from a lvl1 or 2 skill is just insulting. It take a week to train, suck it up.
Bombshell Kitten
Doomheim
#899 - 2014-05-09 08:23:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
If you trained in real life every week night for a year to qualify for a payrise and then the boss a few weeks after you get your payrise decides to give it to everyone regardless of training you will be dissed. Rightly so because you did lose something, all your evenings for a year.
…and for that entire year, you got paid for those evenings.


Tippia, you keep on making the point in line with "it was worth your time while you had it"... Are you suggesting that skills in the game have a time period associated with their worth and they might or might not become wothless after a certain time which CCP will choose ? So consider any skill as being worth training until it's removed in any random subsequent patch with no refunds. In that case it would be nice to either let people know when a skill could be removed and since that's not practically possible to see into future, it's best to refund the points.

To convey what I said above in terms of the example being quoted, if the manager tells this guy that everyone will be given a payraise regardless of their skill level after a certain time T, then this information would have influenced this person's decision wether to spend all these evenings or not.
Opa God
Northwest Industries International
#900 - 2014-05-09 09:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Opa God
I don't understand you. I was just asking a question. I don't have the intention to insult anyone. To me a week is a long time and i have the fear of doing it wrong and the fear that CCP has abandoned this thread. My characters belong to the fastest training chars in eve. I don't want this to change by a little mistake.

To explain it another way:
CCP Fozzie told us how to do it. I am asking if doing it like that is really right.