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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#661 - 2014-04-03 17:53:09 UTC
Icylce wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.

However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained.

Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others “only” 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted.

Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse.

They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. Skills were not but the time was. And time is the most valuable resource.


Oh come on, who trains sentry drone interfacing V (5x) but not scout drone operation V (1x)?
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#662 - 2014-04-03 17:56:32 UTC
Especially since sentries really benefit from the drone control range
Icylce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#663 - 2014-04-03 17:56:47 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.

However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained.

Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others “only” 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted.

Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse.

They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. Skills were not but the time was. And time is the most valuable resource.


Oh come on, who trains sentry drone interfacing V (5x) but not scout drone operation V (1x)?

Sentry V wont be enought for t 2 sentries after the patch.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#664 - 2014-04-03 17:59:53 UTC
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#665 - 2014-04-03 18:00:03 UTC
hmmm

- across the board buff for t1 drones
- faction drones, integrated drones now have a reason to exist. Augmented drones getting buffed above t2, which is a buff to drone sites and to drone users.
- slight reduction in the necessity of drone interfacing 5 without messing anything up
- renaming skills to be more sensible
- fixing the nonsense values regarding minmatar/amarr drones that have been an obvious anomaly since forever
- buff to medium/heavy mwd speed
- sentry damage buffed by racial specialization Shocked
- bouncer damage reduced slightly, curator damage increased. This makes sense.
- curator falloff removed Shocked They do have good optimal range though. They still have faloff on the spreasheet however.
- lowslot drone tracking mods, faction DDAs and more faction omnis and navi comps. Big smile Drones are now even better in PVE.
- 6km extra falloff on garde ii's is a big deal, as it makes the nerf to omnidirectionals much less painful.
- gigantic buff to fighters, which is probably good. CCP decided to make fighters more attractive rather than castrate sentries.

Everything looks fantastic. Only a few things went unaddressed:

- No mention of updates to drone UI.
- No mention at all of drone control range mechanics.
- Nothing about light/med/heavy drones tracking/optimal/hp. Only velocity/damage were discussed, and gallente has the worst tracking among these drones. I guess this is all intended.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#666 - 2014-04-03 18:02:10 UTC
Well I could believe there are players who don't have the specific racial drone skills for the T2 sentries they use (e.g. T2 curators without amarr drone spec), but not ones without scout drone operation V.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#667 - 2014-04-03 18:02:13 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

CCP should add LaTeX support for the forums so that i can post a proof for that =<

Hell yes. CCP, drop everything and add this immediately. What could go wrong?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Icylce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#668 - 2014-04-03 18:02:33 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?

I know quite few
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#669 - 2014-04-03 18:02:34 UTC
Icylce wrote:
They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries.
…and that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again.

Quote:
Skills were not but the time was.
No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either.
Icylce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#670 - 2014-04-03 18:11:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Icylce wrote:
They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries.
…and that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again.

Quote:
Skills were not but the time was.
No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either.


How can u claim no time was lost. If we take 2 players with same amount of sp at the patchday, who started playing the same day one with both skills at 5, one with rank 1 skill at 5 and rank to at 1. After the patchday, the second player has 500k sp more. first player has actually lost 7-8 days.

The sollution proposed in devblog was allright and fair to current players:

" During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to."

THIS however is wrong:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#671 - 2014-04-03 18:12:52 UTC
Icylce wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?

I know quite few


Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls?
Icylce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#672 - 2014-04-03 18:14:02 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?

I know quite few


Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls?

Dont ask me ask them:)
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#673 - 2014-04-03 18:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Phoenix
Icylce wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Icylce wrote:
They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries.
…and that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again.

Quote:
Skills were not but the time was.
No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either.


How can u claim no time was lost. If we take 2 players with same amount of sp at the patchday, who started playing the same day one with both skills at 5, one with rank 1 skill at 5 and rank to at 1. After the patchday, the second player has 500k sp more. first player has actually lost 7-8 days.

The sollution proposed in devblog was allright and fair to current players:

" During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to."

THIS however is wrong:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.




So you'd rather have a situation where someone loses the ability to use T2 or even T1 drones that they were perfectly capable of deploying before the patch?

Yes, this is still happening with the sentries, but it's a smaller difference in training and you also wouldn't ever lose the ability to use T1.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#674 - 2014-04-03 18:16:37 UTC
Icylce wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?

I know quite few


Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls?

Dont ask me ask them:)


Go and ask them, then. Get them to come and post here. I don't hang out with these people, you do.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#675 - 2014-04-03 18:18:37 UTC
Batelle wrote:
hmmm

- across the board buff for t1 drones
- faction drones, integrated drones now have a reason to exist. Augmented drones getting buffed above t2, which is a buff to drone sites and to drone users.
- slight reduction in the necessity of drone interfacing 5 without messing anything up
- renaming skills to be more sensible
- fixing the nonsense values regarding minmatar/amarr drones that have been an obvious anomaly since forever
- buff to medium/heavy mwd speed
- sentry damage buffed by racial specialization Shocked
- bouncer damage reduced slightly, curator damage increased. This makes sense.
- curator falloff removed Shocked They do have good optimal range though. They still have faloff on the spreasheet however.
- lowslot drone tracking mods, faction DDAs and more faction omnis and navi comps. Big smile Drones are now even better in PVE.
- 6km extra falloff on garde ii's is a big deal, as it makes the nerf to omnidirectionals much less painful.
- gigantic buff to fighters, which is probably good. CCP decided to make fighters more attractive rather than castrate sentries.

Everything looks fantastic. Only a few things went unaddressed:

- No mention of updates to drone UI.
- No mention at all of drone control range mechanics.
- Nothing about light/med/heavy drones tracking/optimal/hp. Only velocity/damage were discussed, and gallente has the worst tracking among these drones. I guess this is all intended.

garde II's are being nerfed by ~50dps
currator II's buffed by ~51dps
bouncer II's nerfed by ~38dps
warden II's bufferd by ~15dps
(5 sentry 3dda drone bonused ship)
nothing has been said about ewar drones

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#676 - 2014-04-03 18:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Icylce wrote:
How can u claim no time was lost.
Simple: because the time you spent went to giving you fairly significant advantages that you otherwise wouldn't have and because what you gain from this switch-over is sufficient recompense.

Yes, you could have skipped over, say, training CDO and now get those bonuses anyway, but guess what? Your drones would then have been 20% worse for upwards of a decade. That's a lot of damage output to miss out on over a very long period of time — all so you could “save” 512k SP. The skills were worth training for the advantages they brought. The time was therefore not lost. You also get to keep the bonuses you bought with your training, so again, the time was not lost. At no point do you end up with less than you have; in almost all cases, you end up with more. Loss never enters the picture.

The only way for the time to be lost is if you trained the skills and never used them or if the bonuses were being removed. If it's the former, then that's your own fault; if it's the latter then… who cares, because it's not what's happening. The only downside with the chosen solution is that some poor soul might end up with a higher clone grade, and that's it.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#677 - 2014-04-03 18:31:29 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? PPP
You sir, are asking the real questions here! Blink

If you want an answer, ask yourself this. What number exists between 1.9 repeating and 2?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#678 - 2014-04-03 18:36:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Ok, so what is it? Is it Scout Drone or Combat Drone Operation? And why wouldn't that be mentioned in the Dev Blog? The only thing the blog references is Combat Drone Operation skill, and it's clear as day here:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. . . Finally, we are renaming two drone skills to clarify their roles. The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed “Drone Avionics.”

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Jen Takhesis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#679 - 2014-04-03 18:40:33 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? PPP
You sir, are asking the real questions here! Blink

If you want an answer, ask yourself this. What number exists between 1.9 repeating and 2?


1.99 repeating. Ha! Got ya!
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#680 - 2014-04-03 18:42:53 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Ok, so what is it? Is it Scout Drone or Combat Drone Operation? And why wouldn't that be mentioned in the Dev Blog? The only thing the blog references is Combat Drone Operation skill, and it's clear as day here:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. . . Finally, we are renaming two drone skills to clarify their roles. The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed “Drone Avionics.”




If you have Scout Drone Operation at a higher level than you have Combat Drone Operation at, then you will get the new skills at the level of SDO. If you don't, then you will get them at the level of CDO. It's not that hard to follow.

The blog does say that, but Fozzie is correcting that in this thread.