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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#461 - 2014-04-02 16:27:22 UTC
I would really consider making drones get a bonus if they are launched from their racially aligned ship. If not combat drones then at least the ewar drones.. That takes more balance on the ewar side. I fear people won't bother with the other drones if they can get the max damage out of gallente drones or fastest speed out of minmatar ones.

Now these changes ARE needed, but it is a fear that without either a racial restriction (amarr to amarr drones) or a lack of a bonus to a specific racial drone type for the ship being used (such as bonuses to caldari drones when launched from a caldari ship so much so that they would be the perferred drone of caldari ship users vs going straight to gallente or minmatar as a default).

Similar to how ships get bonuses to a specific turret or missile type.

Yaay!!!!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#462 - 2014-04-02 16:31:21 UTC
good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ...
most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare ....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#463 - 2014-04-02 16:31:41 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds.
So the next step, after people are forced to use sentries, is to wreck them, with the Omni demolition, and now this.

goons use heavies nearly exclusively for pve without problems

sounds like you're just bad at this game

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#464 - 2014-04-02 16:33:46 UTC
Can we get light/medium/heavy sentries also?

And a new drone UI?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Kim Briggs
Aurora Armaments
#465 - 2014-04-02 16:34:10 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ...
most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare ....


see mining barge changes
Yumiko Shaku
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#466 - 2014-04-02 16:35:06 UTC
I do like the idea of more bonuses to drones e.g. Blackbird & scorpion having EC- bonus, arbitrator & apocalypse td- or Ev- ect ect
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#467 - 2014-04-02 16:37:27 UTC
Kim Briggs wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ...
most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare ....


see mining barge changes


i have ... still applies

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#468 - 2014-04-02 16:38:26 UTC
perhaps consider dropping the prices of navy/integrated drones .. cheaper T2 drones would be nice too mind..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#469 - 2014-04-02 16:40:54 UTC
Yumiko Shaku wrote:
Drak Fel wrote:
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:

well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...

currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.

A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.


Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you.

Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol

He's in a scrub alliance who has to be vigilant because they're scared the big bad phage will come kill them.



yahh scrub alliance...
go to dotlan and click the alliance tab
You see my alliance? yes

go to zkillboard and check top alliances in the past 3 days...
You see my alliance? yes

wheres yours? no where.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#470 - 2014-04-02 16:42:38 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).

So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.

Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.

People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.

Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse?

heaven forbid you need to run a small antisupport wing to fend off bombers

hint: bombers need to come within 30km of whatever they are bombing
Gothikia
Wicked Cartel
#471 - 2014-04-02 16:43:17 UTC
These changes should have been made years ago. About time, and good work.

<3 Gothie
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#472 - 2014-04-02 16:43:23 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Yumiko Shaku wrote:
Drak Fel wrote:
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:

well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...

currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.

A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.


Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you.

Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol

He's in a scrub alliance who has to be vigilant because they're scared the big bad phage will come kill them.



yahh scrub alliance...
go to dotlan and click the alliance tab
You see my alliance? yes

go to zkillboard and check top alliances in the past 3 days...
You see my alliance? yes

wheres yours? no where.


llllol

quote before edit
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#473 - 2014-04-02 16:45:10 UTC
From the dev-blog:

"we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries"

Could someone clarify what level of each racial drone specialization skills will be required to use my beloved T2 sentries? Would level 4 be sufficient or would it require level 5?

As a fairly new player (started playing less than a year ago) and having sunk a ton of my combat skillpoints into drones to field T2 sentries, I am wondering if I would lose that ability after this update since I don't have high enough racial specialization skills.
dantes inferno
State War Academy
Caldari State
#474 - 2014-04-02 16:47:04 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).

So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.

Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.

People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.

Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse?


It's ok dude, you will still be able to share accounts and multibox supers/titans. It's not like this **** is against EULA, isn't it ?
Drak Fel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#475 - 2014-04-02 16:47:07 UTC
Yumiko Shaku wrote:
CCP Fozzie,
So with the upcoming changes, mostly the one I want to ask about is the reduction of total drones from 20 to 10, with the way you are doing the bonuses as a 100% damage bonus to fighter and fighter bomber damage, is there a reason we can't see the return of standard drones to supercarriers minus the 100% role bonus effectively making it as useful as a regular carrier when using sub capital drones?

And if not, can we please have a new capital drone that are micro ventures, because mining supers where amusing ^.^


Supercarriers that are as useful a normal carrier for something other than grinding structures? That's crazy talk.
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#476 - 2014-04-02 16:50:32 UTC
Just to ask the question again:

Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?

Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into.

Did I misunderstand?
Obtuse Okanata
Doomheim
#477 - 2014-04-02 16:51:15 UTC
Drak Fel wrote:
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?


Do you know how frustrating it is for little fellas to get invaded by the big boys and their big boy toys with the iwin buttons in tow? (archons for the uninitiated)

At least before when the supercap blob is out burning down your space you could at least bomb their fbs
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2014-04-02 16:54:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.

So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane.

You seem to be assuming the hypothetical faction DDAs will be somehow stronger than officer ones (930dps max)...

Moreover, why mention gun dps at all, dont most ships have a drone bay?
No, I just assume that they'll be stronger than the T2 ones and will be in much more widespread use, which will lead to a general increase in drone-specific damage output — a development they might want to tone down somewhat. I also assume that the drone ships will mount guns in addition to their drones (but mainly devote their module slots to boosting the drones rather than the guns), which would let them reach pretty silly damage outputs — the pre-nerf Domi was a good example of this. Yes, most ships have drone bays, but most ships don't rely on them or spend slots boosting them because that would make their main weaponry much weaker and thus be a waste of slots.


So what you have talked yourself into:
800 dps (now) - OK
760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda
930 dps (officer dda now) - OK
800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF

You may want to explain where you see silly output, otherwise you are arguing that a , saay 900 dps factionDDA ship with saaay 300dps guns has to be curbed, but a 1100dps factionsink lazor ship with 300dps drones does not.
Thoric Frosthammer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#479 - 2014-04-02 16:54:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[quote=Obil Que]
Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.


"Yes there's now a couple of supers that are awesome without refitting, and there's a lot of you who are sitting in supers that are now substandard through no fault of your own, but learn to refit your peon supers scrubs, and bow to your master the wyvern/aeon"

There, fixed that for you. Not much of a satisfactory answer when translated to English from devtalk, is it.

There used to be a reason you'd pick either Nyx or Aeon. One was tanky one was spanky. Now one is both and the other is, basically, neither.

Rather than just dismiss it, as you are often want to do, how about just spreading a tiny amount of love the Nyx's way so that there's still a reason to pursue it for those who enjoy a particular play style.

Evidently you didn't learn from the Archon. I sort of despair for your analytical skills.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#480 - 2014-04-02 16:56:28 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:

So what you have talked yourself into:
800 dps (now) - OK
760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda
930 dps (officer dda now) - OK
800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF

You may want to explain where you see silly output, otherwise you are arguing that a , saay 900 dps factionDDA ship with saaay 300dps guns has to be curbed, but a 1100dps factionsink lazor ship with 300dps drones does not.


ah yes the officer DDA, a common sight in new eden