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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1581 - 2014-03-26 02:08:47 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
So what line did Erotica 1 cross?

I'm listening to this recording. I'm at 1:15:00, and so far all that's happened is they made him read The Code and Olga of Kiev. Pretty standard fare for a bonus round. The worst they've done so far is lightly tease him about his Elmer Fudd voice, meanwhile he's already had one angry outburst, swearing at everyone.

O. Kay.

Maybe things will change as the recording goes on, but so far... nobody's even talking except the guy reading these two documents and asked to look up words he didn't know.

So what line?

No TOS/EULA violation, no laws broken... so what line?


I can tell you he's done creepy stuff where a line was crossed. Having people read The Code isn't so bad, but believe me the man has done some pretty heinous stuff.

I don't know if it's been discussed, given how big the thread is probably, but he has a case-file which includes shirtless men, peanut butter, and underaged girls.

He will basically take a person as far as he possibly can without flinching. If anyone in Eve is a card carrying sociopath, it's probably Erotica 1.


I've known Erotica 1 for a while now. I've sat in and listened on many Bonus Rounds, winners and losers alike. Nothing ever really crossed the line, but Erotica 1 has been on the receiving end of some harsh verbal abuse. But all of that was consensual. I can't comment on the "underaged girl" - first time I'm hearing about it. Maybe you can provide a link to verify your allegation?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Mario Putzo
#1582 - 2014-03-26 02:08:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Then why didn't he leave the conversation?


Its irrelevant.


It is not irrelevant. If he was not comfortable in the situation he could have left at any time.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#1583 - 2014-03-26 02:09:31 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Then why didn't he leave the conversation?


Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.

None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.

What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game.


Does CCP really have jurisdiction outside of the game?


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1584 - 2014-03-26 02:09:47 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Then why didn't he leave the conversation?


Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.

None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.

What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game.

The only function of the recording in this issue, is it evidences that he is indeed doing so.
The proof is there.


And yet Somer Blink continues in business... I'm sorry.. I really couldn't help myself.

Oh hey Currin Trading, scams that involve ingame assets but are persued outside of the game are illegal. Sorry bro you'll need to give that isk back.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1585 - 2014-03-26 02:11:54 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Then why didn't he leave the conversation?


Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.

None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.

What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game.


Does CCP really have jurisdiction outside of the game?


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.


And then did what? Made him read a Wikipedia page?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1586 - 2014-03-26 02:12:13 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.


E1 did nothing against the EULA.
Salvos Rhoska
#1587 - 2014-03-26 02:14:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E1 did nothing against the EULA.


Erotica1 is predating on the community of EVE for victims he then exploits OUTSIDE of EVE.

That is in all ways, shapes and sizes against the EULA.

You can scam people inside EVE all you want.
You CANNOT extend those scams to OUTSIDE EVE.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1588 - 2014-03-26 02:14:56 UTC
Xuixien wrote:

And then did what? Made him read a Wikipedia page?


That's harassment right there. Everyone knows Wikipedia isn't a reliable source.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1589 - 2014-03-26 02:15:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.


E1 did nothing against the EULA.


Not surprising that no one has volunteered to quote the bit of the EULA he breached.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1590 - 2014-03-26 02:15:48 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E1 did nothing against the EULA.


Erotica1 is predating on the community of EVE for victims he then exploits OUTSIDE of EVE.

That is in all ways, shapes and sizes against the EULA.

You can scam people inside EVE all you want.
You CANNOT extend those scams to OUTSIDE EVE.


Quote the EULA on that then.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Mario Putzo
#1591 - 2014-03-26 02:15:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E1 did nothing against the EULA.


Erotica1 is predating on the community of EVE for victims he then exploits OUTSIDE of EVE.

That is in all ways, shapes and sizes against the EULA.

You can scam people inside EVE all you want.
You CANNOT extend those scams to OUTSIDE EVE.


You shouldn't make things up.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1592 - 2014-03-26 02:16:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

1. None of Sohkar's real life resources come into the picture. Did I miss that? Does anything in the EULA help refund Sohkar of ISK he choose to transfer over?
2. The scamming on Soundcloud for in-game resources is NO WORSE than it would be in Jita local. You can lose all ISK and the shirt off your back in Jita. Why would an out-of-game conversation have MORE restrictions than in-game?
3. How can any company's EULA regulate 1s and 0s transferred over another company's software and servers?
4. Kindly post the portion of CCP's EULA that backs up what you just said.

/蘭

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Feyth Yinleq
Doomheim
#1593 - 2014-03-26 02:16:25 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Feyth Yinleq wrote:
Agent Lazuli wrote:
...
On a positive note we discovered just how much Sohkar hates African Americans. He has very strong opinions in that Teamspeak recording. A man of conviction!


For sure, making the victim look bad is a classic from abusive people.
You New Order guys are definitely building a strong defense for your Erotica 1 fellow. You make me sick.



You know what makes me sick.

People who attack someone so openly when his "victim" had every chance in the world to leave whenever he pleased. Erotica 1 and his friends did not keep him there forcefully or against his will.

It makes me sick that a portion of the community holds a double standard and that a CSM member blatantly harasses an EVE player the way he did.

This "victim" could have left at any time, his greed kept him there, his desire for exponential wealth. It wasn't Erotica.

This man lost faith, he gave into greed and strayed from the light.



Not the first time I read this "the victim could have left anytime" argument.
That's true for someone like you and me. But apparently, there is a fine selection process before being given access to this now famous bonus-room.
Imagine if the selection process was random, how boring it would be, having bonus-room sessions lasting only 30 seconds cause the lucky winner left the room almost immediately ?
But no, you can count on Erotica 1 and friends, they know what they are doing. They choose their targets very accurately and they know they will fall for it and stay for a long time.
They must be very proud this time, as Sokhar was exceptional in terms of duration, far beyond their greatest expectations.

So no, this "the victim could have left anytime" argument does not hold, not when the victim is specifically selected not to leave the room too fast.

Where do we go like that with the help yourself, grow a thick skin or die attitude ? What's the next step ? Not helping handicapped people in a wheelchair because you know, they could have made an effort and moved their ass, they have two arms, they could use them ?

Maybe you find me too caring or too idealistic but I cannot see the weak being abused without strongly reacting, especially when such a trap for the weak is so carefully designed and well prepared.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#1594 - 2014-03-26 02:17:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.


E1 did nothing against the EULA.


He used EVE to lure the victim, recorded his humiliating and bullying practices, posted them back in eve forums and everything involves in game assets.

Have you even read the EULA to the point of understanding it? (It's a rethorical question so don't brother as it's clear already)
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1595 - 2014-03-26 02:18:13 UTC
Folks, rules exist for a reason. If you want to change the existing rules, that's fine.

But if no (current) rules have been broken by a particular party, you can't just say "Ban that person because I find his practices offensive" and expect CCP to act on your wishes.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1596 - 2014-03-26 02:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Proletariat Tingtango
Xuixien wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
So what line did Erotica 1 cross?

I'm listening to this recording. I'm at 1:15:00, and so far all that's happened is they made him read The Code and Olga of Kiev. Pretty standard fare for a bonus round. The worst they've done so far is lightly tease him about his Elmer Fudd voice, meanwhile he's already had one angry outburst, swearing at everyone.

O. Kay.

Maybe things will change as the recording goes on, but so far... nobody's even talking except the guy reading these two documents and asked to look up words he didn't know.

So what line?

No TOS/EULA violation, no laws broken... so what line?


I can tell you he's done creepy stuff where a line was crossed. Having people read The Code isn't so bad, but believe me the man has done some pretty heinous stuff.

I don't know if it's been discussed, given how big the thread is probably, but he has a case-file which includes shirtless men, peanut butter, and underaged girls.

He will basically take a person as far as he possibly can without flinching. If anyone in Eve is a card carrying sociopath, it's probably Erotica 1.


I've known Erotica 1 for a while now. I've sat in and listened on many Bonus Rounds, winners and losers alike. Nothing ever really crossed the line, but Erotica 1 has been on the receiving end of some harsh verbal abuse. But all of that was consensual. I can't comment on the "underaged girl" - first time I'm hearing about it. Maybe you can provide a link to verify your allegation?

The stuff I heard about was on goon forums, may or may not exist anymore, and I'm not going to potentially expose myself to something illegal, nor am I going to get myself in trouble by posting goon crap on eve-o. He was run out of GSF for a reason and finding his posts is hard anyway.

Unlike many posters in this thread, I don't think Erotica 1 should be stopped or punished, because he's not breaking any rules here. He's just creepy as hell and I'm willing to confirm as much to anyone who has ears to hear it.

Bonus Rounds are sociopath level crap even if it's banal most of the time, I'm willing to complain all the way up to saying CCP should do anything, because they shouldn't.

If any Important Goons want to disclose some of the crap he's done that's 'over the line' they can, but i'm just a line member who is super creeped out by his actions. He has made me second guess some of my own past actions even though I've never come close to taking anyone for a ride like he has.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1597 - 2014-03-26 02:19:43 UTC
Feyth Yinleq wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Feyth Yinleq wrote:
Agent Lazuli wrote:
...
On a positive note we discovered just how much Sohkar hates African Americans. He has very strong opinions in that Teamspeak recording. A man of conviction!


For sure, making the victim look bad is a classic from abusive people.
You New Order guys are definitely building a strong defense for your Erotica 1 fellow. You make me sick.



You know what makes me sick.

People who attack someone so openly when his "victim" had every chance in the world to leave whenever he pleased. Erotica 1 and his friends did not keep him there forcefully or against his will.

It makes me sick that a portion of the community holds a double standard and that a CSM member blatantly harasses an EVE player the way he did.

This "victim" could have left at any time, his greed kept him there, his desire for exponential wealth. It wasn't Erotica.

This man lost faith, he gave into greed and strayed from the light.



Not the first time I read this "the victim could have left anytime" argument.
That's true for someone like you and me. But apparently, there is a fine selection process before being given access to this now famous bonus-room.
Imagine if the selection process was random, how boring it would be, having bonus-room sessions lasting only 30 seconds cause the lucky winner left the room almost immediately ?
But no, you can count on Erotica 1 and friends, they know what they are doing. They choose their targets very accurately and they know they will fall for it and stay for a long time.
They must be very proud this time, as Sokhar was exceptional in terms of duration, far beyond their greatest expectations.

So no, this "the victim could have left anytime" argument does not hold, not when the victim is specifically selected not to leave the room too fast.

Where do we go like that with the help yourself, grow a thick skin or die attitude ? What's the next step ? Not helping handicapped people in a wheelchair because you know, they could have made an effort and moved their ass, they have two arms, they could use them ?

Maybe you find me too caring or too idealistic but I cannot see the weak being abused without strongly reacting, especially when such a trap for the weak is so carefully designed and well prepared.


Clients leave the bonus round all the time, often before making a single contract, sometimes shortly after - because they have to go to bed. So they do that - they go to bed. Because real life > spaceships.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1598 - 2014-03-26 02:19:52 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:


They have to act as E1 used their game to lure the victim.


E1 did nothing against the EULA.


He used EVE to lure the victim, recorded his humiliating and bullying practices, posted them back in eve forums and everything involves in game assets.

Have you even read the EULA to the point of understanding it? (It's a rethorical question so don't brother as it's clear already)


Have you?

Please quote the section that E1 broke.
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#1599 - 2014-03-26 02:21:04 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Sakura Nihil wrote:
I now suddenly have an urge to see Walking In Stations fully implemented. Can't hunt him if he's docked up in Jita 4-4.

Yet.

My God where have you been?

I've been busy.

Glory

Faded Light is recruiting
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1600 - 2014-03-26 02:21:21 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
I can't comment on the "underaged girl" - first time I'm hearing about it. Maybe you can provide a link to verify your allegation?

The stuff I heard about was on goon forums, may or may not exist anymore, and I'm not going to potentially expose myself to something illegal, nor am I going to get myself in trouble by posting goon crap on eve-o.


Oh, so you only heard about it. So it's hearsay. Okay good, that's all I wanted to know.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist