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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#961 - 2014-03-25 21:31:16 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Cool, almost to page 50. I have the greatest level of respect for this awesome game CCP lets us play. If Hilmar posted in this thread something like "Hey Ero, a lot of us think the bonus rounds are really funny, but we would prefer if you did xzy differently, maybe start a bank instead," I would totally honor his request.

So many people up in arms over something that happened awhile ago (and widely read on www.minerbumping.com in a 4 part series) because some guy named Ripard? posted something.

Instead of the "to the stakes!" talk, let's do what CCP falcon asked early on and remain civil. Thanks.


Do we get bonus ISK for doing what CCP falcon asked? I only want to do things that give bonus ISK.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#962 - 2014-03-25 21:31:19 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:


No, i consider those acts as punishment for being dumb in a fleet, it's in good taste and doesnt go too far and cross in to purposeful and prolonged bullying with the intent to inflict as much hurt and distress on that individual. Theres no malice involved in singing on comms to your corp mates to make up for never not shooting blues.

Erotica got that guys assets/isk in that recording, but instead of kicking him and moving on, decided instead to prolong his humiliation for his own and his hangers on amusements.

Theres a very clear difference, you know it too, but your choosing to play devils advocate.


I see no difference. We blow up the guys ship and get him to sing, Erotica 1 stole his **** and got him to sing.

It is is not prolonged and it certainly is not bullying. It is also nothing compared to the torrent of hate that spewed forth from this victims mouth.

I wonder, are you also interested in getting this "victim" banned for the things he said?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#963 - 2014-03-25 21:32:22 UTC
Kadl wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You do know CCP allows pilots to offer services for ISK, right?

So again, please point to the RMT as I seem to have missed it. No rush, take your time.


Lets look at the RMT clause of the EULA and find that lovely spot where services are allowed!

Quote:
B. Selling Items and Objects

You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.


Oh wait, it never says services are allowed. You may be referring to a common practice of CCP allowing people to send isk to certain people for EVE related services. That is CCP choosing not to enforce their EULA in certain circumstances. So far they have not made a definitive ruling on humiliating singing being an acceptable service.

It does make it clear that you cannot offer to transfer in game items. But that is too broad! Well obviously CCP has written it broadly so that they can ban people when they want to. The whole question of banning comes down to whether CCP wants to ban, not whether they can find part of the EULA to ban them with.

For my part I will consider Erotica1 to be involved in offers (although probably not transfers) of in game items in trade for humiliating singing for his sick pleasure.
So any chance you could point me to the RMT in this instance. Like I said I can wait, no rush.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#964 - 2014-03-25 21:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Of course, if the EULA/TOS was changed, its changes couldnt be applied retroactively to this situation anyway


Oh and another point


Do all these guys who say TS is outside of EvE accept then that using TS in a fleet is using an out of game programme to gain an advantage they otherwise wouldnt have in game?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Dave Stark
#965 - 2014-03-25 21:32:29 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:


Much as I hate to break your little trollish bubble, but as has been noted many times by those coming to E1's defence, said verbal outburst by the victim happened OUTSIDE Eve. Therefore no EULA violation. You can't have it both ways...


No you cant.

Either they are both punished, or neither is.



Or CCP takes it as a wake-up call to modify the TOS/EULA.

Mr Epeen Cool


This. So much this.


i must be missing something, what needs to be changed?
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#966 - 2014-03-25 21:33:00 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Sirinda wrote:
I am appaled at what he's doing, but I also get Malcanis' point of view, if it is the one I think it is.

Basically, you can't punish somebody who hasn't broken any rules, and doing so in spite of it would create a dangerous precedent. In that regard, CCP's hands are more or less tied unless they want to invoke their TOS' arbitrary savior clause.

What a lot of people on the pages 1-5 are apparently forgetting is the fact CCP created those rules; there is no reason they couldn't adapt them to the situation.
Failure to do so would border on criminal negligence, IMHO.


Ive said it multiple times to multiple people in this thread.

The Mittani + Fan fest.

It happened, he broke no rules, yet he got a temp ban and was forced from his position. That was the right thing to do in that situation, its also my opinion that Erotica should have all his assets/isk removed and also receive a ban, but i have morals so i guess im in the minority.


A member of BATs was recorded by nulli singing the theam tune to my little pony (badly). They attempted to use it to get us to kick him out of goons. We laughed at this as did our corp member.

We have in the past told people who messed up in a fleet to sing on comms to make amends.

We have gotten people to place plungers on their heads and apologise via a photo of them doing it for crimes they have committed.

I guess you consider these bullying too?


No, i consider those acts as punishment for being dumb in a fleet, it's in good taste and doesnt go too far and cross in to purposeful and prolonged bullying with the intent to inflict as much hurt and distress on that individual. Theres no malice involved in singing on comms to your corp mates to make up for never not shooting blues.

Erotica got that guys assets/isk in that recording, but instead of kicking him and moving on, decided instead to prolong his humiliation for his own and his hangers on amusements.

Theres a very clear difference, you know it too, but your choosing to play devils advocate.


Singing on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Chewing someone out on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Humiliating someone on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).

Once you have all the stuff, their API, and IP address you have everything from them. It's time to show some good sportsmanship and not try to prolong the humiliation and pain for your amusement. Play EVE the internet spaceships game, not Teamspeak the creepy humiliation game.
Salvos Rhoska
#967 - 2014-03-25 21:33:43 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
---.


Why do you do it?

You already have their ISK and assets.

Whats with the 2hr of out of game torment. with demeaning and humiliating tasks on the false promise they will have their ingame stuff returned to them?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#968 - 2014-03-25 21:33:50 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:


Much as I hate to break your little trollish bubble, but as has been noted many times by those coming to E1's defence, said verbal outburst by the victim happened OUTSIDE Eve. Therefore no EULA violation. You can't have it both ways...


No you cant.

Either they are both punished, or neither is.



Or CCP takes it as a wake-up call to modify the TOS/EULA.

Mr Epeen Cool


This. So much this.


i must be missing something, what needs to be changed?


Yes, very clearly you are. Bless.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#969 - 2014-03-25 21:34:01 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Of course, if the EULA/TOS was changed, its changes couldnt be applied retroactively to this situation anyway


Oh and another point


Do all these guys who say TS is outside of EvE accept then that using TS in a fleet is using an out of game programme to gain an advantage they otherwise wouldnt have in game?


Your so subtle as you sit there and mine your rocks aint ya?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#970 - 2014-03-25 21:34:58 UTC
Kadl wrote:
Play EVE the internet spaceships game, not Teamspeak the creepy humiliation game.



I know, thats what Ventrilo is for for crying out loud!

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#971 - 2014-03-25 21:34:58 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Without taking sides, since when is the idea of using your power as a buyer to not purchase a service, the only real power a consumer has to affect change in a company, a cry of entitlement?


Answer: When you're actually bluffing about your willingness to take your business elswhere.

@Salvos its still contract law, not extortion. the fact that I gave away all my chips for free isn't relevant. If you want a real analogy, it would be victimizing poor people or the homeless by offering them exorbitant sums of money in exchange for whatever. There are some cases where this is explicitly illegal, specifically in human-subjects-based medical research. In general however, this is not extortion. You're basing everything on the premise that erotica/dark-evil-guy is unlawfully holding or possessing the property of the victim, but there are several reasons why this premise is wrong.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#972 - 2014-03-25 21:35:27 UTC
I was half expecting this thread to be locked by now.

Then a "do not talk about this again or you'll get banned" warning from CCP *Insert name here*

...
Dave Stark
#973 - 2014-03-25 21:35:36 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i must be missing something, what needs to be changed?


Yes, very clearly you are. Bless.


clearly since you went to the sarcastic insults rather than an actual answer, there's nothing that needs to be changed.

thanks for clearing that up.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#974 - 2014-03-25 21:35:43 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Of course, if the EULA/TOS was changed, its changes couldnt be applied retroactively to this situation anyway


Oh and another point


Do all these guys who say TS is outside of EvE accept then that using TS in a fleet is using an out of game programme to gain an advantage they otherwise wouldnt have in game?


Your so subtle as you sit there and mine your rocks aint ya?


I havent even got mining frigate skill so that seems unlikely

Plus theres no rocks inside Jita 4-4

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mag's
Azn Empire
#975 - 2014-03-25 21:36:07 UTC
Kadl wrote:


Singing on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Chewing someone out on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Humiliating someone on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).

Once you have all the stuff, their API, and IP address you have everything from them. It's time to show some good sportsmanship and not try to prolong the humiliation and pain for your amusement. Play EVE the internet spaceships game, not Teamspeak the creepy humiliation game.
So where do you stand on racism and RL death threats? You seem to have missed that part.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#976 - 2014-03-25 21:36:22 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Sirinda wrote:
I am appaled at what he's doing, but I also get Malcanis' point of view, if it is the one I think it is.

Basically, you can't punish somebody who hasn't broken any rules, and doing so in spite of it would create a dangerous precedent. In that regard, CCP's hands are more or less tied unless they want to invoke their TOS' arbitrary savior clause.

What a lot of people on the pages 1-5 are apparently forgetting is the fact CCP created those rules; there is no reason they couldn't adapt them to the situation.
Failure to do so would border on criminal negligence, IMHO.


Ive said it multiple times to multiple people in this thread.

The Mittani + Fan fest.

It happened, he broke no rules, yet he got a temp ban and was forced from his position. That was the right thing to do in that situation, its also my opinion that Erotica should have all his assets/isk removed and also receive a ban, but i have morals so i guess im in the minority.



And what punishment should the caller get?

Ban him too of course. Clearly unsuitable for EVE.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#977 - 2014-03-25 21:36:51 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Erotica got that guys assets/isk in that recording, but instead of kicking him and moving on, decided instead to prolong his humiliation for his own and his hangers on amusements.


The size of this thread is evidence enough that Erotica1 stood to gain more than just assets/isk.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Dave Stark
#978 - 2014-03-25 21:37:02 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
I was half expecting this thread to be locked by now.

Then a "do not talk about this again or you'll get banned" warning from CCP *Insert name here*


i think this thread is a great way to judge how many people would love themepark eve vs those of us that came explicitly not to be handheld.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#979 - 2014-03-25 21:37:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Kadl wrote:


Singing on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Chewing someone out on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).
Humiliating someone on coms is part of EVE if the goal is an in game advantage (better fleets).

Once you have all the stuff, their API, and IP address you have everything from them. It's time to show some good sportsmanship and not try to prolong the humiliation and pain for your amusement. Play EVE the internet spaceships game, not Teamspeak the creepy humiliation game.
So where do you stand on racism and RL death threats? You seem to have missed that part.



I hear he may get fired from his corp for those.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#980 - 2014-03-25 21:38:16 UTC
This has been a long thread.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]