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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#781 - 2014-03-25 19:45:19 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Big Lynx wrote:
Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy?


Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round.

So we understand correctly...

Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him.
Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour.
A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour.
The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.

F

Would you like to know more?
Brusanan
Free State Project
#782 - 2014-03-25 19:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Brusanan
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I cancelled one of my money-paying subscriptions in protest at CCP tolerating cyber-bullying.

I encourage others to do the same.

We can live without that 4th dictor/cyno alt. CCP cant live without our money.

Time to make a stand and clean up EVE.

This. I encourage everyone who finds something wrong with the bonus room to biomass your characters and then cancel your subscriptions. You might want to consider playing WoW while you wait for CCP to turn Eve into the carebear paradise you long for.

If you're looking for someone to look after your assets in the meantime, I am more than happy to hold onto your stuff for you.
Victor Andall
#783 - 2014-03-25 19:46:01 UTC
So where's the coercion?

The forcing.

The humiliation that the victim had no choice but be subject to?

In short, where's the actual bullying?

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Dave Stark
#784 - 2014-03-25 19:46:39 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
Big Lynx wrote:
Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy?


Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round.

So we understand correctly...

Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him.
Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour.
A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour.
The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.

F


i'm going to assume it was a quick search because you knew exactly where to find such services? ;)
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#785 - 2014-03-25 19:47:57 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
Big Lynx wrote:
Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy?


Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round.

So we understand correctly...

Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him.
Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour.
A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour.
The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.

F

This is a solid assessment. A 2nd bonus round is definitely in order.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#786 - 2014-03-25 19:48:21 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
the more vulnerable players of the game


How do you propose identifying these people? What makes someone vunerable? Should they wear a special badge or something?

Vyktor Abyss wrote:
protect the credibility of the whole Eve community.


Ill just let that sentence stand as it is.

Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Will it take an event like those recent chat room bullying-suicides (and probably the subsequent closure of Eve)

Ok well I assume those were not EvE related or the forums would be on melt-down. However I am certain that they are more complex issues than you have made out and did not include a full grown adult man with rage issues and a helluva greed for spacecash.

Vyktor Abyss wrote:
CCP need to properly police and moderate (which is different to consorship) their community for the benefit of the whole community.


Again, though, where is the line between "We deleted that comment because it could lead to unpleasant RL consequences" and "We deleted it because you like something we dont"?


Ramona,

Thank you for highlighting relevant parts of my post and by means of your terrible posting, adding weight to my argument.

Vulnerable members like those with learning difficulties, speech impediments or any the world of other conditions and disabilities that are part of most large communities don't need identifying as you sadly suggest. They need to be protected by appropriate moderation when it is identified like in this case that they have been victims of bullying.

I pity you if you don't see that in any large community of people, that if the community as a whole fails to act to help the victims within their own community then it deminishes the credibility of that whole community. For example if an Eve player was bullied to the point of suicide, I would definately feel ashamed to be part of that *game* community and hope that CCP would adopt measures to ever stop that from happening again. I'm suggesting they act proactively here and not wait for someone to be trolled/bullied to death, but actively go after any people who seek to hurt the game or the community (like they do with RMTs for example).

There have been many chat-room related suicides and although more common in teenagers, I don't see why you would suggest one form of anonymous internet bullying is much different from another and suggest that Eve's players are somehow more mature than the general internet population. Evidently not.

The first article I randomly found is here for you, but there was another well publicised case as recently as 6 months ago making national news here and it sadly appears to be a growing trend. You may never know the issues people have for doing these things, but to suggest that there is some mythical line people either cross or do not when bullying is ridiculous and shows how silly your viewpoint is. Bullying is wrong, just don't do it.

Clear cases of bullying, like this one, need CCP attention and action regarless of it occuring on a teamspeak server or not. I'm glad Jester's blog highlighted this case ( I personally just thought Erotica 1 was just a forum troll, so it was news to me) and may hopefully draw some CCP attention. You too if you keep posting to this new threadnaught also contribute, so thank you.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#787 - 2014-03-25 19:48:38 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
Meh, I think the moment that the conversation turned from the removal of his assets and to his personal dignity it crossed the line for me.

Scamming is part of the game you say? Yes, humiliation and public ridicule however are not.


CCP Gargant was Ok with it when it happened to him.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=308111

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Mag's
Azn Empire
#788 - 2014-03-25 19:49:48 UTC
You know what upsets me the most?

Not getting those last 2 songs sang. It's criminal I tell ya, CRIMINAL!Evil

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#789 - 2014-03-25 19:50:27 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#790 - 2014-03-25 19:51:12 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

Thank you for highlighting relevant parts of my post and by means of your terrible posting, adding weight to my argument.




Sorry I have no idea who you are

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Salvos Rhoska
#791 - 2014-03-25 19:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Batelle wrote:
5) the accuser was consenting and not coerced (the fact that the accuser was lied to doesn't necessarily make it coercion, erotica1 never had any means of coercion nor claimed to have such means).


"Either you come come to this out of game context, or your ingame assets are lost to you".
This constitutes coercion, by means of duress.

Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.

Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately).
But the victim is obviously scared shitless at this point that he will not get his ingame assets back.
He is forced, by the coercion applying duress, to follow into that out of game context.

Erotica1 applies duress (by means of ransoming the players ingame assets against his out of game compliance) to force/coerce that player into an out of game context where the rest of the blackmail/extortion can occur.

Its like me holding something of yours, and saying you will only get it back if you follow me into this dark alley.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#792 - 2014-03-25 19:54:35 UTC
Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)

"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM

Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it.
"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#793 - 2014-03-25 19:55:46 UTC
Emma Muutaras wrote:


personally i would advice the victim to make a official complaint to his/her local police.



The player isn't real life identified. The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.

If you want to compare that to what goes on with facebook, forget it. ie there are slates that can't be wiped clean, this isn't one of them.

If bloggers didn't pick the bonus room up, it wouldn't even be widely distributed.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#794 - 2014-03-25 19:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Malcanis wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
Good old Monty Python, a video for every occasion, including what is turning out to be a witch hunt.

I don't agree with what Erotica does, I find it distasteful, but I'll be damned if I'm joining in on a populist Salem-esque witch hunt.

That said, I have pitchforks and burning torches for sale at Jita 4-4, ask me nicely and I might even do a decent deal on ducking stools. Profit is profit after all.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Qalix
Long Jump.
#795 - 2014-03-25 19:56:12 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/

So here goes for news coverage.


This can only bring more players to EVE. Let's test it with a 21 day buddy invite on that page.

Out of curiousity (and acknowledging that it is probably impossible to determine), if it could be determined conclusively that your behavior and behavior like yours was actually affecting CCP's bottom line and either new customers weren't joining or old customers were leaving, would you change your behavior voluntarily?

Also, I've been sharing this story with my coworkers. To a man (and woman), they don't get what the point of your actions were. What the "fun" was. I've attempted to use the traditional EVE explanations but have failed to get across to them the "bad guy" play style embedded in EVE. If you had to explain to a non-EVE, non-MMO person what you were doing and why, what would you say?
Dave Stark
#796 - 2014-03-25 19:56:36 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
If bloggers didn't pick the bonus room up, it wouldn't even be widely distributed.


and people still wouldn't care.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#797 - 2014-03-25 19:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

So we understand correctly...

Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him.
Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour.
A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour.
The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.

F


I normally don't agree with you Feyd, but in this, your logic is undeniable.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#798 - 2014-03-25 19:58:11 UTC
Anyone catching the march madness thing? What teams are winning? When does the final four start?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#799 - 2014-03-25 20:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
5) the accuser was consenting and not coerced (the fact that the accuser was lied to doesn't necessarily make it coercion, erotica1 never had any means of coercion nor claimed to have such means).


"Either you come come to this out of game context, or your ingame assets are lost to you".
This constitutes coercion, by means of duress.

Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.

Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately).

But he then applies duress (by means of ransoming the players ingame assets against his out of game compliance) to force/coerce that player into an out of game context where the rest of the blackmail/extortion can occur.


aye, and the experience is almost exactly akin to playing poker where someone you don't like is in the game, who has a big mouth and goads you into going all in with the second best hand.

better learned about with cheap virtual things imo.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#800 - 2014-03-25 20:00:09 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
I don't see how anyone with a straight face can use the words torture, victim, etc in relation to a game that you voluntarily play, where the items and actions aren't real, and you can leave at any time you want. You can block/ignore anyone you want, close down TS any time. All that tells me is the person saying this lives a life that must be privileged and free of any actual problems nearing the definition of victim or torture. I don't know about the guy in question, but if singing a song on TS or losing all my spaceship stuff ranked among the big deals in life, my life would be much better than it is now.

The appeal to the female relative is strange as well, like some kind of shaming based on sexism? I don't know. Should I inflict this on a lady, they are such delicate creatures, they may have hysterics or something? I don't tell my grandmother some of the things that goes on in the bedroom which I'm pretty sure would freak her the hell out. It's not something she would understand, and probably eve she wouldn't understand either, so what is it supposed to mean exactly.


Your grandma is probably more knowledgeable about sex than you think.