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Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#641 - 2014-03-25 18:44:34 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
I would expect a CSM member to have no opinion and just moderate the forum so that it does not devolve into name calling. I wouldn't expect a blue tag opinion either as that should be discussed with legal and not published on the forum.


1) Nowhere in the CSM job description is "forum moderation" found.
2) The CSM's job is to consult with CCP on various player-affecting policies and developments. Having an opinion on the subject is very explicitly their job. When and where they deem it appropriate to share that opinion is entirely up to them.
3) Obviously the blues are going to tread lightly on the subject and generally be non-committal outside re-posting existing rules, posts, etc. When and if they have something substantive to say, they will do so once most decisions or actions have already been taken.


True, I mistook CSM for an ISD. I fail to see the value of a CSM tag whatsoever.
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#642 - 2014-03-25 18:44:58 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Kadl wrote:
Erotica1 was clearly looking for services, actions to be performed by Sohkar (and others). Those actions were to be performed outside of the game on a Teamspeak server. Erotica1 may have used coercion to obtain those services. Thus a crime of extortion may have been committed.

If the activities were outside the game then Erotica1 was clearly offering in game items (or to make in game actions) in return for out of game services (or actions). It may be that Erotica1 had no intention of providing those in game items (or in making certain in game actions).

Whether it's criminal or not, it's probably abhorrent behavior based on even the White Knight's posting in this thread.


Yes Erotica1's behavior after the scam should be condemned. The question of legality is all about what laws actually exist in the proper jurisdiction. I think it is obvious that CCP can ban Erotica1. They could also take lesser actions. The point that Jester clearly made is that actions like this are something that CCP should consider in light of the type of publicity they create.
Dave Stark
#643 - 2014-03-25 18:45:06 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.
Salvos Rhoska
#644 - 2014-03-25 18:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
La Nariz wrote:
]What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?


The first depends on the jurisdiction the matter is tried in.

To the second I do not have to present any credentials as I am not prosecuting or investigating the potential case, nor claiming to be a prosecutor, nor a law enforcement officer.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Praise the Yeti
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#645 - 2014-03-25 18:47:30 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those arguing that the assets are owned by CCP, then it falls incumbent on CCP to press charges on Erotica1 for ransoming their ingame proprietary property against an individual who has paid CCPfor use of them, by means of extortion/blackmail occuring OUTSIDE of thee game.


CCP could take such action if they judge themselves to have been harmed by such false claims, but they are in no way obligated to do so.


Erotica1 has been blackmailing/extorting clients of CCP OUTSIDE of the game, by means of and against their (either Sohkars or CCPs, depending on how that swings) ingame property.

There is no false claim here. The recording is real, and takes place outside of the game, as does everything that occurs in that recording.

Based on this, are you requesting Shadoo and Grath Telkin be banned also?

There are public recordings of them engaging in the same type of activity as Erotica.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#646 - 2014-03-25 18:47:36 UTC
Qalix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Such a long post when all you had to do was type "Star Citizen and Erotica1 will kill EVE" and be done with it.

What you see as a toxic brand identity , I see as an 'exclusive' brand identity. ie, Don't play EVE if you can't handle it.

Most people can't so they don't and more power to them.

This is but one asshat among many and Valkyrie is every bit as dangerous to "original" EVE as Star Citizen and the other games coming down the pipe.

I love how some players like to pretend that EVE is difficult. It's not. Your woefully misguided mentality is the kind of thing that kills many businesses. "My product is great! Those people are just haters! I'm not going to change anything! We didn't want those customers anyway!"


On with that again. Where did i say 'difficult'?

And this product ios great, 10 years and counting when most MMos are dead in a fraction of the time. I kow that burns the EVe haters up but it's the reality.

Get in through your head, some people aren't like you and while you think CCP is doing bad business, others disagree. Hell, you seem to disagree, you posting here means you're still paying CCP money in some fashion.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#647 - 2014-03-25 18:48:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those arguing that the assets are owned by CCP, then it falls incumbent on CCP to press charges on Erotica1 for ransoming their ingame proprietary property against an individual who has paid CCPfor use of them, by means of extortion/blackmail occuring OUTSIDE of thee game.


CCP could take such action if they judge themselves to have been harmed by such false claims, but they are in no way obligated to do so.


Erotica1 has been blackmailing/extorting clients of CCP OUTSIDE of the game, by means of and against their (either Sohkars or CCPs, depending on how that swings) ingame property.

There is no false claim here. The recording is real, and takes place outside of the game, as does everything that occurs in that recording.


I wasn't disputing the veracity of the recording, I'm saying that CCP has no obligation to press charges against erotica1 for ransoming CCP's property.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#648 - 2014-03-25 18:48:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.


You discount the level of emotional attachment that was involved after a while. I am not defending the person that was scammed here at all.

That someone is gullible and perhaps not that smart is not reason to prolong the situation for as long as it went on.

That's my concern. The length of time that this went on is slightly disturbing to a number of people.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Big Lynx
#649 - 2014-03-25 18:48:22 UTC
how much isk was scammed there?
Dave Stark
#650 - 2014-03-25 18:48:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


The mob demands blood


i agree, that guy was completely racist and verbally abusive. he's not the type of player we want in this game.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#651 - 2014-03-25 18:48:58 UTC
Bottom line, CCP either does something about this or not. It's pedantry to talk about legality and court processes.

If it's a black eye, I am pretty sure CCP will do something about it. They have enough stuff written into their EULA, they can arbitrarily axe someone from the game any time they please. They don't need to provide an explanation or a rationale for it. They can simply do it.

If this recording upset you and they don't, then all you have is getting mad.

If this recording doesn't upset you and they do something, all you have is getting mad.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Salvos Rhoska
#652 - 2014-03-25 18:49:29 UTC
Praise the Yeti wrote:
Based on this, are you requesting Shadoo and Grath Telkin be banned also?

There are public recordings of them engaging in the same type of activity as Erotica.


I am not familiar with those.

Do you have links perhaps?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#653 - 2014-03-25 18:50:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.


last night I went out scanning and found a plex. An alliance mate came in later and scanned and found the plex I was in and asked me in local if I was in it. I said i was and he put a sad face in local.

That Sad Face is proof that I made a real person feel bad in real life, so to save CCP the trouble of banning me I will biomass myself as an act of contrition.

Big smile
Dave Stark
#654 - 2014-03-25 18:50:20 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.


You discount the level of emotional attachment that was involved after a while. I am not defending the person that was scammed here at all.

That someone is gullible and perhaps not that smart is not reason to prolong the situation for as long as it went on.

That's my concern. The length of time that this went on is slightly disturbing to a number of people.


then he should have removed himself from the situation.
Praise the Yeti
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#655 - 2014-03-25 18:51:36 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Bottom line, CCP either does something about this or not. It's pedantry to talk about legality and court processes.

If it's a black eye, I am pretty sure CCP will do something about it. They have enough stuff written into their EULA, they can arbitrarily axe someone from the game any time they please. They don't need to provide an explanation or a rationale for it. They can simply do it.

If this recording upset you and they don't, then all you have is getting mad.

If this recording doesn't upset you and they do something, all you have is getting mad.

So it is okay for FC's to rage and verbally abuse people in their fleets on comms but what Erotica did is different?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#656 - 2014-03-25 18:51:40 UTC
Qalix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Such a long post when all you had to do was type "Star Citizen and Erotica1 will kill EVE" and be done with it.

What you see as a toxic brand identity , I see as an 'exclusive' brand identity. ie, Don't play EVE if you can't handle it.

Most people can't so they don't and more power to them.

This is but one asshat among many and Valkyrie is every bit as dangerous to "original" EVE as Star Citizen and the other games coming down the pipe.

Is this a joke at the expense of valkyrie, or is it a joke at the expense of star citizen?

Quote:
I love how some players like to pretend that EVE is difficult. It's not. Your woefully misguided mentality is the kind of thing that kills many businesses. "My product is great! Those people are just haters! I'm not going to change anything! We didn't want those customers anyway!"

Its worked for 10 years, so why not?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#657 - 2014-03-25 18:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Anslo wrote:

This is about players standing against the vitriolic and toxic nature of certain groups in eve who strive to ensure hate and spite are promoted so they get their 'kicks.'
Like yourself? Your anti ganking rants are truly something to behold. I'll allow you this though, you don't take it as far as some, you know where the line is drawn, at least some of the time.

Quote:
This is not a call for a themepark. This is a call to return civility to the game.
So sayeth the man that is more than willing to be uncivil in the pursuit of his own agenda.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#658 - 2014-03-25 18:52:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


The mob demands blood


i agree, that guy was completely racist and verbally abusive. he's not the type of player we want in this game.


But don't you know, his racism is totally ok because an evil video scammer made him be abuse to an Afro-Canadian guy. I saw video that Erotica1 was standing over the guy in his house with a hatchet to his throat making him spew the N word over comms, true story.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#659 - 2014-03-25 18:52:38 UTC
Literally,

"I don't like what this guy did even though its within the rules so I'm going to try and smear the company running the game and force them to do what I want!"

Honor was selected against in this game and no amount of reminiscing is going to bring it back.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#660 - 2014-03-25 18:52:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Erotica 1
TigerXtrm wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.


We could do that for the CSM podcast interview thing. Since everyone likes to assume things, I suppose I should just mention the following:

I'm Catholic, support gay rights, pro life (but support contraception), love discussing politics (and voting for the person not the party), totally against animal abuse, and all around average middle of the road American. Call me stupid, but I even give money to street corner beggars. Yeah, they could be scammers, but you know what, they might be homeless and hungry too.

No, I'm not calling the cops over all these people wanting me dead over internet space pixels lost by anonymous people. Sohkar's friend threatened in-game to gut me in real life. No, I didn't report that.

I would be happy to discuss the Erotica 1 brand on TS, perhaps for Massively? I was supposed to do an interview (and I suggested live bonus round) for PC Gamer awhile back but I put that off and forgot about it.

I'd also be happy to accept a position at CCP (feel free to create a position for me) and retire Ero. That'd be cool.

*edit* I've had clients suggest they would buy PLEX with cash to double. I've always told them not to do that. That's bad.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.