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Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5481 - 2014-03-27 15:50:52 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
[Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You seem confused. Erotica has never asked for nude pics of significant others.

Quote:
PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.

I like how all of the anti-Erotica people in this thread are so unconcerned with actually being right that they all just start wildly accusing Erotica of every crime they can think of.


Oh yes, Erotica 1 has asked and received from his victims nsfw pictures of their significant others. And then, he posted them on forums.

Of course, since you can falsely claim that Erotica 1 does not commit similar acts, you must be an Erotica 1 associate, and perhaps even one of the torturing company that we can listen to on Erotica 1 bonus room recordings?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5482 - 2014-03-27 15:51:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation.
The will of the people torturing the victim is for him to stop being tortured?

I wish, for your sake, that mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport.

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Brusanan
Free State Project
#5483 - 2014-03-27 15:51:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

I'll probably be gone in an hour, try again then.

Regards,
Crumplecorn


False.

The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation.
The will of the victim is to fulfill the demands of the perpetrators, in order to fulfill the contract and receive the reward he was promised.

The Bonus Room perpetrators enable and enact their will of causing the victim to leave the situation, by applying systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain (which constitutes torture).

That is the mechanism whereby they "win" the Bonus Room.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219

You are causing psychological pain with your shitpoasting in order to enforce your will of getting the pro-Erotica people to stop supporting him in this thread.

Stop torturing us.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#5484 - 2014-03-27 15:51:27 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:

You are not proving me wrong. You are rather claiming to prove me wrong in a failed attempt to portray Erotica 1 as a harmless, average and even well wishing EVE player. You are trying to whitewash him. You attack everything to the best of your abilities that consistently reveal that Erotica 1 is a mentally disturbed individual who picks up victims from EVE Online, and abuses, tortures and bullies them over real life means of communication.

You are lying to this community. You are attacking people that are rightfully concerned about the well being and the perception of this community, because your sole motive is trying to portray a psychopath as an 'average, fun guy'.

Go forth and face the shame that you have attained for yourself so far. Meanwhile feel free to explain to the good people of EVE Online how you can claim that I, of all the people, threatened your life.

No amount of lies is going to be enough for whitewashing this guy.


Oh man, and hear I was hoping you'd just stop embarassing yourself.
Ok, last attempt before I stick you in the crazy-box;
This thread is about the following events;
What happend;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: ok
Ero: read this text please
Adult ATC: Ok, N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Ero: Sing songs
Adult ATC: NO! N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Adult ATC: I'l gonna kill you!
Adult ATC: My wife will come and scream at you some more

With these facts presented in audio recordings and blogposts and well, this thread.
What can we conclude?

- you are silly for saying anyone was tortured.
- nowhere anyone asked anyone to do stuff with mayo or pictures.
- sokhar is not a victim, never was.
- Ero is not a victim in the bonus room either but he IS a victim from an orchestrated attack by riptar.

Where do we disagree and what are your counter arguments?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5485 - 2014-03-27 15:51:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bolded an important qualifier there for emphasis. Last I checked, nothing was done against Sokhar's will so, even in the broadest definition, as provided by Wikipedia where you got that from, no torture took place.


See:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400280#post4400280


No.

You ******* see.

Sokhar chose to give Ero his isk to begin with, before the bonus round ever even happened. Then he CHOSE to give them his assets, before ANY of your so-called 'torture' happened. Stop playing coy, arguing semantics and just generally being dumb. You have a brain, use it. Sokhar consented to EVERYTHING, and you can keep linking your own claims all you like to try to 'prove' yourself to be right but it's as bad as saying "the bible is true because it says it's true".

I'm sorry, but if you even approached an academic stage with the way you think, it would see you coming a mile away and light itself on fire before you got too close.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5486 - 2014-03-27 15:52:09 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Oh yes, Erotica 1 has asked and received from his victims nsfw pictures of their significant others. And then, he posted them on forums.
Links or STFU.

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Asuka Langley S
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5487 - 2014-03-27 15:52:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Asuka Langley S wrote:
---


Obvious throw-away alt disregarded.

Try again.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219


I'm offended. This is my main account and I can show proof to this fact. Not to mention that the only reason you disregard it is because I am right and you know it.
Boomtown Jones
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5488 - 2014-03-27 15:52:57 UTC
Nobody who takes this issue seriously should still be posting in this thread, it's all just feeding the trolls. Send your thoughts to the devs and be done with it.

As a general rule if an argument on the internet does not make any sense it is often not worth responding to it.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5489 - 2014-03-27 15:53:13 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Try again?
Wait, are you taking my posts where I call birthday parties torture to be serious?

I... I don't even.

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PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5490 - 2014-03-27 15:53:17 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
[Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You seem confused. Erotica has never asked for nude pics of significant others.

Quote:
PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.

I like how all of the anti-Erotica people in this thread are so unconcerned with actually being right that they all just start wildly accusing Erotica of every crime they can think of.


Oh yes, Erotica 1 has asked and received from his victims nsfw pictures of their significant others. And then, he posted them on forums.

Of course, since you can falsely claim that Erotica 1 does not commit similar acts, you must be an Erotica 1 associate, and perhaps even one of the torturing company that we can listen to on Erotica 1 bonus room recordings?


Worth quoting.
E1 such a nice person in this community.

Roll
Salvos Rhoska
#5491 - 2014-03-27 15:53:56 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation.
The will of the people torturing the victim is for him to stop being tortured?

I wish, for your sake, that mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport.


The will of the perpetrators is for the victim to leave the Bonus Room.
That is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room.

This is accomplished by torturing him, as outlined here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5492 - 2014-03-27 15:54:26 UTC
Boomtown Jones wrote:
Nobody who takes this issue seriously should still be posting in this thread, it's all just feeding the trolls.
'Just'?

I think not.

15th and counting baby.

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lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#5493 - 2014-03-27 15:54:30 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Thank you for your inquiry

ESRB greatly values your comments and questions, however due to the high volume of inquiries we receive, we may not be able to respond specifically to each and every one. We recommend that you review our FAQ and other areas of our website for answers to common questions.



We truly appreciate your interest in and support of the ESRB and will continue to work diligently to ensure that computer and video game consumers have the information necessary to make educated purchase decisions.

LOL.

So yeah, basically a generic "F-off and stop bothering us with your inane questions. We're not even going to pretend that we'll read what you wrote so here's a generic answer"

Push harder dude don't let this slide.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#5494 - 2014-03-27 15:55:24 UTC
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
It really is impossible to keep up with this thread. I left last night @ 182 and came back today @264 and soaring.

Actually it's @268
@270
@272
273
Drat!

Lol
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5495 - 2014-03-27 15:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


LOL, I got this vision of you typing furiously at the keyboard in fine 'that'll show him" fashion.


Irrelevant, non-argument, and ad-hom.

Quote:
The only important thing here is bolded. What established standard?


The same standard that says you cannot go from system to system bumping miners (or anyone else) for no reason, and no meaningful gain on your part. At the point Erotica had all his assets, there was nothing left to gain.


Wrong.

Its the perception of legitimacy. Ero's rep has always been that he does not appear to scam. If he ended things the second he got all the targets stuff, he would be committing a scam. By driving proceedings until the contestant "voluntarily" gives up, he can claim in full honesty that the contestant lost fairly, and was not scammed. That is his reason, that is what he gains.


Miner bumpers could easily claim that they "gain" by preventing that miner from mining and therefore affecting the overall mineral price in some insignificant way. This makes no sense in light of repeated assertions in this thread of how easy it is to discover the reality of the bonus room before participating in it. No meaningful effort to control the appearance of a scam is actually being made.

Furthermore, you have affirmed that this is in-game behavior by asserting in-game gain from it.

Quote:
Sure, its subjective, but that strikes me as a significant motivation in this game where perceptions of what occurred often overules the truth of what occured.

In other words, it's completely intangible, immeasurable, and unconfirmable by any objective means.

Erotica 1 posts the results of these all over the place, and this thread is full of people affirming that it's a known scam and the victim was foolish for falling for it. They've pointed out that the actual reality of the bonus room can easily be researched.

Erotica 1 makes essentially no effort at all to conceal that the bonus room is a scam, other than just verbal assertions to the contrary. Heck, all they'd have to do is claim that the player didn't give them APIs to other accounts (which might or might not exist) and "didn't show full faith in the process." It is pathetically easy to maintain the already-weak facade that there's actually a chance of winning.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#5496 - 2014-03-27 15:55:48 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
A few weeks ago, I got doxed by players in this game. They sent a mail to my personal email, mentioned two of my family members by name, and passively threatened me to leave them alone with a smiley face at the end of it.

I petitioned it, but was told that external evidence cannot be used and is even harder to link to in-game entities. I was told not to discuss it with anyone, and I shouldn't, but now it's important that I talk about it.

If I'd forwarded that email to a game site, or Jester, or someone, on the substantiated belief that the person who doxed me was a dangerous individual and a threat to the community, would that random unknown player, someone not known in the community at all, be under the same scrutiny that Ero is now? No.

The whole lot of you high sec dwellers would all be telling me, 'haha, serves you right, you shouldn't mess with people who don't want to pvp." I've shared the information and in-game identity of the player in question with people I trust, so that they know to watch their backs. I've been forced to close Facebook, email and YouTube accounts and various other accounts around the internet that I'm associated with. But if I'd shared the evidence with Riptard, what would he make of it? Do you think he'd post it in one of his articles about how EVE is dying because of the meanie scammers and gankers? If you're saying yes, then you're wrong: the player in question is an afk miner with five accounts and hubris up to his earballs. Riptard wouldn't do anything to endanger his own people now, would he.

I'll tell you something that no one in the New Order, Goons, or any of these groups that you all so hate with so much passion would never do. They'd never dox you. They'd never threaten your real life entity, and they'd never use your family as leverage.

Want to hear the scariest part? This person actually contacted my mother on Facebook to tell her she was an awful person for raising such an arse of a son. You know what she did?

She called me, apologised for being a horrible mother and cried for three hours before I calmed her down and reminded her that I'm an adult and it's just a game they're talking about. By the end of the conversation, she actually understood what EVE is about, she understood the nature of the game. She's 55 years old and gets this game better than half you 15-20 somethings curled up in your little safety bubbles in highsec do.

Do you know what I did to the last person who made my mother cry? I drove a two-tonne truck straight at him, slammed on the breaks when I realised what I was doing and stopped it with him pinned between a bullbar and a garage door. He was unharmed, thank ****, because I would have been entirely responsible for any injury he sustained. And I would have ACCEPTED that responsibility for my EMOTIONAL reaction.


This is obviously a horrible thing to have happened to you (if any part of it is true of course – we have no way of knowing that do we?) I think you do Riptard (and the majority of highsec dwellers) a disservice when you say he wouldn’t have cared if you told him because even though I don’t know him personally he seems a decent sort of guy.

However...

You spend your time poking random strangers on the internet with a sharp stick. How can you be surprised that one of them turned out to be a psychopath? Statistically speaking it was inevitable that something like this would happen to you, and you have nobody to blame but yourself. I want to be clear here – I do not in any way condone or approve of what happened, I just point out it was a statistical inevitability that it did.

As many people have said, it is not CCP’s place to try to regulate people’s behaviour outside of the game, and I agree with that point of view completely.

Where CCP should step in is when a players actions (either in or out of game) threaten to damage their intellectual property. I imagine that Riptard is reaching out to every news outlet he can reach to try to spread this story right now. All it takes is a reporter who needs to fill a couple of column inches to summarise his blog under a headline (“The Dark Side of Internet Gaming” would do) and we are off to the races. CCP are on record too many times supporting scamming and ganking to wriggle out of it.

In my opinion what CCP should do is make a public example of E1. A lifetime ban, bio massing all his accounts and assets, a permanent ban on his name, address, cards – everything. The reason given should be “Bringing CCP’s IP into disrepute”. No changes to the TOS or EULA are required; no line needs to be spelled out. CCP should send the message loud and clear that they don’t want this sort of behaviour to be associated with their product, and that they will be the sole arbiter of what does or doesn’t count as unacceptable behaviour.

As far as the invective the victim hurled at E1 in the recording, I would argue that the whole purpose of that sick little charade was to invoke that explosion, so that E1 and his cronies could enjoy the “tears”. He is welcome to sue his victim, and he probably has a case, but I doubt any lawyer would take it. I can just see it now:

“I tricked this guy into giving me all his space pixels, and because he valued them so much I was able to coerce him into a voice comms channel with the promise that I might give them back. Once I got him on voice comms my buddies and I tormented him, ridiculing his disability and demanding he perform humiliating and embarrassing things, all the time holding out the possibility of returning his space pixels, and recording the whole thing so my buddies and I could post it publicly to further humiliate our victim. We kept going until we had caused his wife to suffer a panic attack, which we of course made fun of, and then the guy just snapped and called me a lot of bad names.”

Yeah. I’d pay to watch that case on court TV.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5497 - 2014-03-27 15:56:01 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Oh yes, Erotica 1 has asked and received from his victims nsfw pictures of their significant others. And then, he posted them on forums.
Links or STFU.


Links to Erotica 1's posts were provided on this thread before and they were authenticated by another CSM member, mynnna.

Are you going to continue lying or are you able to feel shame to a degree that can stop you from lying?
Prince Kobol
#5498 - 2014-03-27 15:56:14 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
For that I believe he should be perma banned, of course many disagree which is there right.

Good post with solid reasoning. I disagree with the above, but let's just agree to disagree on that.

I do however have one thing to bring up. You believe that Erotica 1 should be banned based on what he did, rather than if he broke any rules. On the other hand, I find it distasteful that no less than a CSM, someone who should be objective in presenting his views, is inciting a hate campaign against one player. In addition, he is actually giving EVE a bad name by posting this on various blogs/internet posting sites etc. This would mean he may be at fault for breaching the following term of the EULA (no matter how vaguely it is written):
ToS wrote:

You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

Would Sokhar's racist and anti-ethnic views be considered as advocated by said CSM by omission?

Would you support a ban on the CSM in light of the above? Just curious to know where you stand on this.


If he was advocating these views then yes I would, however he is reporting what happened. The two whilst can look similar are completely different.

I doubt anybody would in any seriousness would say that Jester is in anyway shape or form advocating any of groups or philosophies
Tor Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5499 - 2014-03-27 15:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Norman
Boomtown Jones wrote:
Nobody who takes this issue seriously should still be posting in this thread, it's all just feeding the trolls. Send your thoughts to the devs and be done with it.

As a general rule if an argument on the internet does not make any sense it is often not worth responding to it.

Isn't that kinda what we're doing? The forum has been heavily moderated on this issue except for this threadnaught. It's abundantly clear they're giving us a wide berth to allow us to vent our concerns and get as honest an opinion from the community as possible.

Frankly, I think this is an incredibly smart move on their part.

I talk about EVE trading and general space violence in my blog.

For the ISK and the yarr!
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5500 - 2014-03-27 15:56:43 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The will of the perpetrators is for the victim to leave the Bonus Room.
That is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room.
Since you're not getting this I'll try to make it simpler:

I tell you I'm going to punch you in the face until you walk away from me. You stand still and take the punches to the face without moving.

This is not torture.

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