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Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#521 - 2014-03-25 17:54:59 UTC
CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.

So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Salvos Rhoska
#522 - 2014-03-25 17:56:27 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?


It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.

For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters.
The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lady Areola Fappington
#523 - 2014-03-25 17:56:56 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.

So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.



The epic lolz will happen when it does blow up....only more in the "Look at how goofy EVE players are singing and breaking stuff for a game!", and not "OMG look at this cyberbullying!"

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#524 - 2014-03-25 17:57:03 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?


It's not illegal for players to be intolerant and make racist or homophobic taunts in local chat or, to name their ships, corporations or characters with racial epithets yet, CCP chooses to take action against players who do so. So you tell me more about CCP's "responsibility" and where it begins and ends, please.


Those are in-game actions.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#525 - 2014-03-25 17:57:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom


Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go!


False. Teamspeak.

And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.


I still don't understand why the police should care about my, or anyone else's, space stuff. Question

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Winchester Steele
#526 - 2014-03-25 17:57:50 UTC
Anna Karhunen wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
I read the Jester's blog post, but I haven't read any of the comments there, nor here. My opinion based on what Erotica1 has done, is to permaban him and all his accounts. No mercy whatsoever, no refunds for money spent. Nada.

Would you care to expand upon why Erotica and the like should suffer real world punishment for actions that are carried out within a virtual world that does not forbid said actions, no matter how distasteful you or I may find them?

Perspective is a quality that some in this thread appear to be lacking. If you don't like something that somebody is doing within the confines of Eve, then punish them for it, in game. Threats of real world violence for actions carried out within the context of Eve are not acceptable, people who make such threats, or condone them should be stomped on from a great height by both CCP and local authorities.

I don't know about Icelandic law, but in my country what Erotica1 does with the Bonus Room, is illegal. That alone is reason enough for me.



Hows the weather over there in bullsh*tistan?

...

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#527 - 2014-03-25 17:57:59 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.

So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.


So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned.

Wow.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#528 - 2014-03-25 17:58:54 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom


Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go!


False. Teamspeak.

And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.


It was a hypothetical. All of your previous arguments hinge on it being OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. So you'll need new ones to address the hypothetical of Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Now tell us why it is illegal.


Illegal? The laws of various countries and states may claim jurisdiction based on Erotica 1's location or other details. It wouldn't matter if it was in or out of game.

Against the EULA. Sections 6.A.5 bans using any of CCP's communication methods for harassing, abusive, or harmful conduct. Yes it is broad. Yes you probably break the rule often. Yes it allows CCP to ban people when they like. For instance if they decide that Erotica 1 is providing bad publicity then the use of in game communication methods would provide the excuse to ban.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#529 - 2014-03-25 17:59:32 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.

The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.

What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal.


You can't extort someone for items that have no value.... a lawyer would know this.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#530 - 2014-03-25 17:59:34 UTC
voetius wrote:
One of many definitions, but the one I prefer at the moment, would be Kant's Categorical Imperative :

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."[1]

Kant has a certain reputation for obscurity, which is certainly justified, so if it isn't immediately apparent what he means, that could be paraphrased somewhat loosely as "do unto others as you would want to be done to".


How can you quote Kant and then misinterpret the words so horribly?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#531 - 2014-03-25 18:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
Malcanis wrote:
So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned.

That's not at all what I said.

I don't have an opinion on Erotica1. I just read the blog post, and then pages of hurfblurf outrage here.

People want to ostracize someone to correct this behavior? The simplest way is to go after CCP's wallet and reputation.

Malcanis wrote:
Wow.

What's wow is a living breathing strawman elected to the CSM.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#532 - 2014-03-25 18:00:20 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#533 - 2014-03-25 18:00:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?


It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.

For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters.
The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal.


Okay, but we're talking about a game where scamming is okay and we're also talking about virtual video game items. Even if part of the scam happens out of the game as long as the person is only scammed out of in-game items, it's not an IRL crime.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#534 - 2014-03-25 18:01:30 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So what you're saying is that you don't care what damage is caused to CCP or EVE as long as you can get someone you don't like banned.

That's not at all what I said.


I'm afraid it is.

What you meant? Maybe not. But it's the logical consequence of what you said.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#535 - 2014-03-25 18:01:53 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


We know you're in Widot, or at least were, and its still safe to assume most Widot guys aren't as smart as you.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#536 - 2014-03-25 18:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?


It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.

For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters.
The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal.
Actually it's very different, extortion and blackmail in real life involves real currency and assets, generally owned by or the responsibility of the victim. The real life currencies and assets are generally not recoverable by their legitimate owner after the crime has been committed.

In Eve every single asset and item of currency belongs to CCP, not the individual being blackmailed, as such if those assets and currency stay within the game they remain the property of CCP. Nothing is stolen from the legitimate owners of the property, which is CCP. All assets and currency held by players are on loan from the owners of said items, CCP.

Nothing of any value is lost to ingame blackmail, scamming or ransom. It all remains the property of CCP who can take it back at any time, for any reason they see fit.

It clearly states in the EULA that:
Quote:
B. Rights to Certain Content

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.


Linked for your convenience

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#537 - 2014-03-25 18:02:23 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
CCP is only going to intervene if it blows up like The Mittani thing. This soundcloud being heard by the wider world about their game is going to be very embarrassing.

So if this really bothers you, get it out to the greater gaming press and larger gaming community.



The epic lolz will happen when it does blow up....only more in the "Look at how goofy EVE players are singing and breaking stuff for a game!", and not "OMG look at this cyberbullying!"


And if it goes the other way, I'm betting the guy who threatened to kill someone and send their friend around to his mother's house to "gut" her over a video game probably won't be getting the sympathetic hearing hoped for.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#538 - 2014-03-25 18:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Capt Starfox wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom


And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?


I tried that when i lost my mach to some Confederation of XXpizza guys. When the police wouldn't take the case I sued XXPizza civilly, not just for the mach but for rebelling during the American Civil War and failing to deliver my Pizza in 30 parsecs or less..

Judge Judy wouldn't take the damn case.
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2014-03-25 18:03:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.

The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.

What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal.


You can't extort someone for items that have no value.... a lawyer would know this.


There is such a thing as psychological extortion. Furthermore a person has time and effort invested in those items so who are you to say the items have no value?

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Lady Areola Fappington
#540 - 2014-03-25 18:03:26 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.



What benefit would Ero get by doing that?

I mean, is there anything E1 could say, that would prevent you from wanting to hang him/her from the yardarm RL?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide