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Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#5281 - 2014-03-27 14:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirsi Kirjasto
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ssieth wrote:
It's pretty pure and simple really. If this is the sort of behaviour that CCP are happy to be associated with EVE then they need do nothing but shrug and say "it's the nature of EVE, live with it".

If they don't want this sort of behaviour to be associated with EVE then they need to take a strong stance (altering EULA if required).

Sittining in the middle doing nothing looks a bit weak no matter what they think.


If you're talking about the carebears hauling pitchforks up to Ero's doorstep, then yes, CCP needs to start cleaning up this thread. Better yet, lock it and be done with it. Because no behaviour has been worse than that on display in this thread by the carebears with the pitchforks wishing for harmful things to befall Ero IRL. Not even Sokhar's.


Really.
It shows how completely worthless the forum moderation is around here.

Broken rules generally get threads locked, usually on the flimsiest of pretenses.

IE: A thread gets trolled by asshats. If CCP just 'doesn't like' the subject because it puts them in a bad light - BAM - thread locked for trolling.

On the other hand, of the mods LIKE the topic - "Hey, lets allow 260 pages of hate slamming Erotica 1 as a pretense for nerfing his playstyle!" - Well, then rules don't matter and the ISD's are directed to go on vacation.

Trolling, hate, personal attacks, this thread has it all. But guess what, its still chugging along.

CCP Falcon and the forum mods have really shamed themselves here and deserve any lack of respect hey have earned.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5282 - 2014-03-27 14:39:56 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head with that . Where is the line in these situations. For all discussions and commentators most agree, myself including scamming is fine. But once scam is completed and you have all possible assets extracted , is it ok to prolong the ordeal for the sucker ( victime , self inflicted) for tear extraction as it is called in-game.


Lots of people suggest this, and its faulty. Humiliation/revenge/destruction/tear-extraction for its own end has ALWAYS been okay in Eve. No one ever said you could only scam if it was for a profit.

As I said earlier, without the continued "ordeal," there wouldn't be a 100 pages of thread per day on the subject of Erotica1. To someone with an ego that size, that is far more valuable than any in-game assets extracted from a clueless mark. You can't buy this kind of publicity.

It is indisputably true that Erotica1 stood to gain by dragging out the bonus room ordeal long after acquiring all assets.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5283 - 2014-03-27 14:39:58 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
The control to end this was completely in Erotica1 hands . Ultimate responsibility is with the scammer Erotica1 for this entire situation
Actually the client ultimately has more control over the situation. It can't even begin without their consent.


here is the full text not a snippet quote so my response can be put into context

"I think you hit the nail on the head with that . Where is the line in these situations. For all discussions and commentators most agree, myself including scamming is fine. But once scam is completed and you have all possible assets extracted , is it ok to prolong the ordeal for the sucker ( victime , self inflicted) for tear extraction as it is called in-game. Should the EULA be more stringent on that aspect of scamming. Me personally i say yes . As for punshment i will disagree , there should be perma ban for Erotica1 for taking it too far, then putting this public domain which has a consequence for the whole community. There should be a temp ban for the sucker (victim ,self inflicted ) for the racism , and threats that followed. Why the lesser punishment . He was under self inflicted emotional duress, which was not completely under his control as his assets where being held to ransom , by that he had to play or loose everything he built up in his eve carrier . Coercion is used by Erotica1 , the scenario was set up by erotica1 , The control to end this was completely in Erotica1 hands . Ultimate responsibility is with the scammer Erotica1 for this entire situation"

For the scamming aspect yes it happend with the victims consent . He willingly handed over assets like a idiot. The bonus room shenanegians involved coercion by holding victims assets to ransom. The bonus room was done in a teamspeak which belongs to erotica1 or his freinds. Erotica1 set it up with the intent to focus on humilating people , not avatars not just to scam. The scenario of what went down was under his control as he was the one giving instructions . The putting of the recording in public domain was done by him . The capacity to stop boot the sucker (VICTIM) from teamspeak and end this was within erotica1 control . Erotica1 choose to set up the room out of game to humilate people not just to scam , and continued his antics after the scam was complete. He already had all the guys assets
Tor Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5284 - 2014-03-27 14:40:35 UTC
The problem is you cannot ban a player simply because people don't like him. There needs to be a breach of the game's rules. If there's sufficient agreement that the rules are inadequate for dealing with a new situation, such as the bonus room, then the rules need to be updated as appropriate.

Problem: If a change to the rules is indeed necessary, what rules can be introduced that effectively ban "bonus room" scams without negatively impacting other areas of the game? In order for any change to be effective, the problem must be adequately defined.

This is a major hurdle that those who want Erotica 1 banned must face and unfortunately, "I don't like him" is not an acceptable definition of the problem. Nor is "I don't like that behaviour". Whatexact event is occuring in the bonus room that can be singled out and defined as a EULA breaking acivity?

I talk about EVE trading and general space violence in my blog.

For the ISK and the yarr!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5285 - 2014-03-27 14:41:31 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.


Hurt feelings are not real harm.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5286 - 2014-03-27 14:41:39 UTC
It really is impossible to keep up with this thread. I left last night @ 182 and came back today @264 and soaring. On a serious note It seems that , given the lack on input from and GM, ISD and/or Dev. The alleged wrongs committed here by the involved parties should remain as allegations for the time being.

I do think the thread here is legitimate, given that the alleged wrongs began in EVE online. I also feel that this thread should be mirrored onto the Team Speak Forums, since that is where the alleged wrongs were continued.

In this way all the relevant companies will have a chance to examine the arguments objectively and provide pinned/stickied opinions on the issues herein.

Everyone enjoys a good flame war, but there comes a point in time where a more emotionally tempered approach to real issues and concerns will actually garner a real response and resolution.

In other words, lets bring back some civility and move through the appropriate channels.

Cool

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#5287 - 2014-03-27 14:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:


It is such a sad and pathetic thing to do , and I'm shocked so many people are defending it.

The point, you missed it.

Because I'm not you, here's why you're missing the point:

No one is defending what Erotica 1 did. What they are saying, is that Erotica 1 has not broken any rules. Therefore, calling for him to be permanently banned from the game based on his actions, which while beyond bad taste did not break any rules, is akin to requesting people to be banned because they did something that some other people don't like, regardless of whether any rules are broken or not.

I await your snarky one liner which I'm sure will deliver your points in a clear and coherent manner.

Actually there are plenty of forum scum here defending what Erotica 1 did.....

Incorrect, there are many EVE players in here stating that even though it was in extremely poor taste Erotica 1 violated no rules and does not deserve a ban.

Mostly because a lot of us aren't prone to hysterical knee jerk reactions, and/or believe that if the "victim" is a more than willing participant you can't really deem the proceedings as "torture".


I think it's a case of emotional thinkers (kill E1!) vs rational thinkers (Erotica1 might be creepy, but rules exist for a reason). You see that the guy you are replying to can't help but add emotion based insults to his posts.

Even emotion driven adolescents grow up eventually. Sometimes it just takes an adult patiently explaining how the world works, often more than once. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5288 - 2014-03-27 14:41:56 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:


One too many really bad prequel references.


Go back to SWTOR.


hahaha.
Thank you.

Next fuckatrd please.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5289 - 2014-03-27 14:42:04 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.

Wait are you telling me these people are hurt because they lost pixels? aweeeee Cry

I disagree
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5290 - 2014-03-27 14:43:25 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
The control to end this was completely in Erotica1 hands . Ultimate responsibility is with the scammer Erotica1 for this entire situation
Actually the client ultimately has more control over the situation. It can't even begin without their consent.


here is the full text not a snippet quote so my response can be put into context

"I think you hit the nail on the head with that . Where is the line in these situations. For all discussions and commentators most agree, myself including scamming is fine. But once scam is completed and you have all possible assets extracted , is it ok to prolong the ordeal for the sucker ( victime , self inflicted) for tear extraction as it is called in-game. Should the EULA be more stringent on that aspect of scamming. Me personally i say yes . As for punshment i will disagree , there should be perma ban for Erotica1 for taking it too far, then putting this public domain which has a consequence for the whole community. There should be a temp ban for the sucker (victim ,self inflicted ) for the racism , and threats that followed. Why the lesser punishment . He was under self inflicted emotional duress, which was not completely under his control as his assets where being held to ransom , by that he had to play or loose everything he built up in his eve carrier . Coercion is used by Erotica1 , the scenario was set up by erotica1 , The control to end this was completely in Erotica1 hands . Ultimate responsibility is with the scammer Erotica1 for this entire situation"

For the scamming aspect yes it happend with the victims consent . He willingly handed over assets like a idiot. The bonus room shenanegians involved coercion by holding victims assets to ransom. The bonus room was done in a teamspeak which belongs to erotica1 or his freinds. Erotica1 set it up with the intent to focus on humilating people , not avatars not just to scam. The scenario of what went down was under his control as he was the one giving instructions . The putting of the recording in public domain was done by him . The capacity to stop boot the sucker (VICTIM) from teamspeak and end this was within erotica1 control . Erotica1 choose to set up the room out of game to humilate people not just to scam , and continued his antics after the scam was complete. He already had all the guys assets


We've all read it, dude. We've read the whole thing. Crumplecorn's point remains, and so does the little issue of there can be no coercion if the 'victim' hands over his assets willingly from the very beginning, and continues to consent to everything throughout the entire process. He even managed to leave at one stage, and then he willingly came back. Sokhar was ENTIRELY responsible for all his choices the moment he handed over his very first isk. Not to mention virtual assets aren't real, they are virtual, which means that nothing exists to coerce him with.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#5291 - 2014-03-27 14:44:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.


Hurt feelings are not real harm.


Wow, emotional abuse is just as real and hurtful as physical abuse. You are delusional.

It went way past hurt feelings of lost pixels. It went well into emotional distress and abuse caused by E1.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5292 - 2014-03-27 14:44:30 UTC
Tor Norman wrote:
Whatexact event is occuring in the bonus room that can be singled out and defined as a EULA breaking acivity?


From what people posted about the EULA they can ban anyone for anything and never even tell us why. So to answer your question: "saying the word 'IT'".
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5293 - 2014-03-27 14:45:22 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.


Does E1 physically harm people. I need to know how he is able to jump through TS and pimpslap people because that would be a neat trick.

There is NO way that taking ingame items or even being 'mean' on teamspeak in any way justifies physical violence. Why is that hard for you types to understand?
Prince Kobol
#5294 - 2014-03-27 14:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
For me there are 3 main issues here.

Did E1 break any rules?

The way the rules are written they are open to interpretation. Some say that he did break them, other say he didn't, nobody here can say with any certainty whether he did or did not break them as we didn't write them, we can only give our opinions, only CCP say that he did or did not definitely.

Should he be banned on Ethical and Morale grounds?

I will agree that this is a very difficult decision to make. Do we want the stereotype that we all psychopaths hell bent on making every bodies life hell reinforced.

I believe we have one of the best communities in the gaming world yet the overriding perception of many gamers outside of Eve is the opposite.

My opinion is that E1 only has reinforced the negative views people already have of Eve players. He took something which is one of Eve greatest assets and turned it something which it was never meant to be, a way of doing nothing but causing a person as much humiliation as possible Out of Game.

For that I believe he should be perma banned, of course many disagree which is there right.

Should Sohkar also be banned if E1 is?

Yes. Even thou I deplore E1's actions, there is no excuse for using the language that Sohkar did. Many will argue that he was under duress and in a highly emotional state when he made those comments and that he apologised afterwards.

This does not matter, not to ban him for a period of time would open a door that would basically kill Eve.

You would just have petition after petition being raise with this person said x,y and z in comms.

I would not perma ban him because of the circumstance of the situation, but he should still receive some kind of ban.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#5295 - 2014-03-27 14:45:40 UTC
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ssieth wrote:
It's pretty pure and simple really. If this is the sort of behaviour that CCP are happy to be associated with EVE then they need do nothing but shrug and say "it's the nature of EVE, live with it".

If they don't want this sort of behaviour to be associated with EVE then they need to take a strong stance (altering EULA if required).

Sittining in the middle doing nothing looks a bit weak no matter what they think.


If you're talking about the carebears hauling pitchforks up to Ero's doorstep, then yes, CCP needs to start cleaning up this thread. Better yet, lock it and be done with it. Because no behaviour has been worse than that on display in this thread by the carebears with the pitchforks wishing for harmful things to befall Ero IRL. Not even Sokhar's.


Really.
It shows how completely worthless the forum moderation is around here.

Broken rules generally get threads locked, usually on the flimsiest of pretenses.

IE: A thread gets trolled by asshats. If CCP just 'doesn't like' the subject because it puts them in a bad light - BAM - thread locked for trolling.

On the other hand, of the mods LIKE the topic - "Hey, lets allow 260 pages of hate slamming Erotica 1 as a pretense for nerfing his playstyle!" - Well, then rules don't matter and the ISD's are directed to go on vacation.

Trolling, hate, personal attacks, this thread has it all. But guess what, its still chugging along.

CCP Falcon and the forum mods have really shamed themselves here and deserve any lack of respect hey have earned.

I have to disagree on this one point. Our forum mods do the best they can, and this is one thread that (for a variety of reasons) I would be reluctant to touch with a 10' pole.

The moment they close it or delete posts they will be accused of "choosing their side" and "censoring the truth about this outrage" and all sorts of other childish nonsense.

I don't blame them for letting people get it out of their system first, and then dealing with it when people begin to start thinking rationally again.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5296 - 2014-03-27 14:45:47 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:


One too many really bad prequel references.


Go back to SWTOR.


hahaha.
Thank you.

Next fuckatrd please.


Oh the hurtz!! She got me!! ABUSE!! TORTURE!!! BAN IT!!!!

BAN IT WITH FIRE!!!!!

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#5297 - 2014-03-27 14:45:57 UTC
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ssieth wrote:
It's pretty pure and simple really. If this is the sort of behaviour that CCP are happy to be associated with EVE then they need do nothing but shrug and say "it's the nature of EVE, live with it".

If they don't want this sort of behaviour to be associated with EVE then they need to take a strong stance (altering EULA if required).

Sittining in the middle doing nothing looks a bit weak no matter what they think.


If you're talking about the carebears hauling pitchforks up to Ero's doorstep, then yes, CCP needs to start cleaning up this thread. Better yet, lock it and be done with it. Because no behaviour has been worse than that on display in this thread by the carebears with the pitchforks wishing for harmful things to befall Ero IRL. Not even Sokhar's.


Really.
It shows how completely worthless the forum moderation is around here.

Broken rules generally get threads locked, usually on the flimsiest of pretenses.

IE: A thread gets trolled by asshats. If CCP just 'doesn't like' the subject because it puts them in a bad light - BAM - thread locked for trolling.

On the other hand, of the mods LIKE the topic - "Hey, lets allow 260 pages of hate slamming Erotica 1 as a pretense for nerfing his playstyle!" - Well, then rules don't matter and the ISD's are directed to go on vacation.

Trolling, hate, personal attacks, this thread has it all. But guess what, its still chugging along.

CCP Falcon and the forum mods have really shamed themselves here and deserve any lack of respect hey have earned.


Torturing a person in TS is not a playstyle. Its just sick.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5298 - 2014-03-27 14:46:09 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.


Hurt feelings are not real harm.


Wow, emotional abuse is just as real and hurtful as physical abuse. You are delusional.

It went way past hurt feelings of lost pixels. It went well into emotional distress and abuse caused by E1.


What part? The reading the Wikipedia entries, or the Disney song? I know some Disney songs are pretty bad, but I hardly think they count as "emotional abuse".

Or are you talking about being laughed at? Because in that case, I'm emotionally abusing you right now.

Did nobody ever teach any of you sorry ***** the "Stick and Stones" rhyme?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5299 - 2014-03-27 14:46:31 UTC
Ultimately, this **** is so ridiculous, some guy gets bullied on teamspeak, and you guys think the person who bullied him should be banned? Or perhaps post it to the teamspeak forums as that is where it happens?

Hi Teamspeak, I got bullied on a server pls help, pls I was stuck in this server and I could not leave, pls I am being forced to send all my assets on a online video game to this person or he will not give me lots of money in this game, someone is being mean to me HELP!!!! I AM STUCK IN THIS SERVER AND CAN NOT DISCNONECT SOMEONE CALL POLICE

I disagree
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5300 - 2014-03-27 14:47:02 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Druthlen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no justification for wanting to see erotica1 hurt so that you can laugh at it.

Period.


This last part....LMAO So ironic since that is exactly what E1 does. Hurt people so he and his friends can lulz.


Hurt feelings are not real harm.


Wow, emotional abuse is just as real and hurtful as physical abuse. You are delusional.

It went way past hurt feelings of lost pixels. It went well into emotional distress and abuse caused by E1.


If it did, why then did the 'victim' not disconnect? Why did the 'victim' verbally consent at the beginning?

If the 'victim' is somehow mentally ill to the point that he couldn't consent, why was he on the internet instead of under someone's care?