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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4401 - 2014-03-27 05:16:02 UTC
Muestereate wrote:
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:
Dieterlin wrote:
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:
If we assume the whole conversation happened ingame, what was broken in the EULA? Please show me the paragraph(s) explaining.


Section 6, Part A "Specifically Restricted Conduct", Section 5.

EULA wrote:
You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-party’s intellectual property rights.


Ero1 definitely conducted "harassing behavior" outside the scope of normal gameplay, and the victim made threatening comments. Both of them should be banned.



The only person to use threats was Sohkar, I have listened to the sound clip from start to finish. Erotica 1 never raised his voice and never threatened anyone, was not obscene, did not harass, was not abusive or defamatory.


Eroticas voice is processed, A simple compressor could flatten any and all or just some of Eroticas volume fluctuations

Not to mention that Erotica and friends were in control of the situation the entire time. Its part of the manipulation to use a calm tone and to remain calm and collected because it contrasts with the victims out of control manner and removes even more control from the victim. Its why people tell you to take a step back or a deep breath in a conflict situation because it helps in regards to recovering some control.

They're manipulative, that's the whole idea of the bonus round.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kyperion
#4402 - 2014-03-27 05:17:55 UTC
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4403 - 2014-03-27 05:18:27 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4404 - 2014-03-27 05:19:19 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The end.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#4405 - 2014-03-27 05:23:36 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
I've also personally witnessed... ... several more committing suicide over the next couple years.

How does this work then?

PS. I know you didn't mean to imply that you have witnessed men committing suicide or that you will witness it several more times over the next couple of years, but your post is a little difficult to follow, not only in terms of sentence structure, but relevance.

Any chance for a rephrase?


I've been to their funerals, is that more concise, please forgive my semantic twist of a phrase, personal license and distortion caused by lack of emotional distance from this admittedly nonbinary recollection.
Kyperion
#4406 - 2014-03-27 05:23:44 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.

The character of the game (or 'sandbox') is what is in question, but it is not a question posed to you; we all know the level of infinite depravity you would like the community to sink.

The question is for those people who have not already made up their minds to be scumbags.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4407 - 2014-03-27 05:27:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Everyone knows emotional pain is real, and depending on what it is can be worse than physical pain.


Being made fun of on the internet is not, in any way shape or form, analogous to real torture.

Ever. I don't care if you lose your space pixels or not.


Of course it can be analogous to real torture. Not the sword in the fire with a back drop of an iron maiden type of torture. We'll leave that for the fantasy film buffs to cream over.

No: It's more analogous to what is now called enhanced interrogation in the halls of polite and fluffy govt ivory towers. And I should mention that the phrase 'being made fun of' belittles what's actually happening. You can drive the right person to slit their wrists with words alone if your grasp of social manipulation is twisted enough. Or you can bring some right up to that point and then back off to do it over and over until they snap.

How many links would you like to tragic ends for people that have been 'made fun of' on the internet. Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? I can link them.

Mr Epeen Cool
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4408 - 2014-03-27 05:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Kyperion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.


Yes it does. It answers it perfectly. It's not even an analogy, it's an actual conclusive answer. I don't think you even know the meaning of the word analogy.

You want civilisation? You can make one, cuz it's a sandbox. You want competition? Create it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want fair play? Balance it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want social cooperation? Create the content that requires it, it's a sandbox. You want a clown show? Then stage one, cuz it's a sandbox. The 'character' of the game is created by the players. I don't need anyone to conform to crap because I'm playing my own game with my own goals. You should try doing that yourself and stop trying to get everyone to conform to your 'infinite moral superiority' and you might enjoy the game more.

The question itself is poorly phrased, because it limits EVE to only a few possibilities, but EVE is more than you give it credit for. That's why you fail.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#4409 - 2014-03-27 05:30:01 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Muestereate wrote:



I'm sorry for the delay getting back. I stepped out and only saw your post by chance, probably because it was at the top. I don't think you or Danilee are part of the 4%. That number represents sociopaths.[citation needed] You should not infer you are effed up. Your difficulty in understanding is not caused by a sociopathic lack of empathy and understanding. Most likely its caused by a phenomena known as psychological distance.[citation needed]

Many people believe that things should be black and white, either or, for or against.[citation needed] The real world does not exist in a binary fashion, it is analog with spaces for instance between 1 and 10.[citation needed] As we approach the mathematical extremes of either, or these binary measurements, marked by the extremes, mathematicians notice a lack of certainty that continues down to the quantum level. Our current conclusions are that there are no absolutes but that is of course subject to change by the very principles that describe this situation.[citation needed]

Back to psychological distance. Did you ever wonder why sniping and kiting and large fleets are more popular than brawling and solo? In killing there is a human need for psychological distance.[citation needed] Firing at a superior's or Fleet Commanders order is fun. Dropping a bomb from 30000 feet is easier than strangling a man eye to eye.[addendum: this is due to ts convenience, not psychology] Shooting an enemy from a hundred fifty k is easier than a one on one kiting and kiting is emotionally easier than charging full on toe to toe with blasters.[citation needed and addendum: kiting and sniping are tactics used to mitigate risk, again, not psychology, just smart] The same goes on in real life in wars. The most emotional damage that's treated in VA centers are from men close enough to open up a victims wallet after a kill and seeing pictures of a wife and children.[citation needed] Emotional distance nearly ceases to exist at this point and unless your[sic] part of the sociopathic natural killers, you will be effected.[citation needed, murder is not a pathology]

The same is going on with the softening of gender boundaries that the world is experiencing. Whereas for centuries the distance was so great that a man or woman might never in a lifetime be confronted with gender confusion, the probability that it will happen as went up many fold. If it happens accidentally or is forced on a person the confusion and reaction will be greater than if it is sought consensually in something like mutual friendship as it appears the three of us at least have experienced.[don't even know what to do with this paragraph, if it can even be considered one]

But to put yourself at a closer emotional distance, I can only think to ask you to imagine "putting the moves" on a member of the same sex and after considerable involvement "discovering" that the person your[sic] with is not the gender you think. Now I know many gay females that would act extremely violently if they encountered a phallus by surprise. I've also personally witnessed young men at a bachelor party reacting by several jumping from a multistory window, several more retreating to the bathroom and the barrel, more than several embracing the situation and participating anyhow, Several curling together sobbing in tears that they were gay and yet several more committing suicide over the next couple years.[anecdotal testimony: dismissed]

So do[sic] to personal experience I have to assume this either isn't your first dance and you've settled with what your[sic] comfortable distances are, male or female, gay or not.[assumption, possible false dichotomy: inconclusive] Decrease your current emotional distance and I think you'll start to see why you empathize with E1 is that your mistaking a lack of abuse by E1 at a close distance with an act of kindness. By playing EVE, you are a victim of...


Stockholm Syndrome[citation needed]


So, since you like writing essays, I've gone through with a little constructive criticism that might help you improve the quality of this particular piece. As short as it was, it was a relatively easy read but with various confusing statements. Some of that confusion arose from poor spelling, but assuming this is a draft, we can let that slide for now. Your grade will suffer if you don't fix it though.

Many of your more specific claims will require citations. I've marked a number of those. There are a few logical fallacies in there, and a few statements that you've made that could have alternative explanations, examples of which I've provided for you. A good essay is exploratory, and should examine alternative explanations before forming a conclusion, otherwise your conclusion can be waved away when someone else reviews the essay and provides those alternative explanations.

Also, be careful using Wikipedia as a source. It's a nice starting point, but it's not actually acceptable resource for citation. There are plenty of citations that you might want to explore on the Wiki pages themselves, and I strongly suggest that you not rely on just one source. Generally, I suggest a minimum of ten sources from students, but if you were publishing, a list of sources can and should extend to a page or more, at least, to show you've done extensive research. These sources should not just be read, but cited within the article itself where relevant to show that you've actually used the information in those sources.

Since you seem to be falling behind a little, and given the attempt you've made thus far, I'm prepared to grant a 24 hour extension for your final submission. I know you can pull off a better quality final draft than this, so let's see it.


You certainly are gracious Remeil, I embrace you in your sparing me your wrath.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4410 - 2014-03-27 05:30:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.


Yes it does. It answers it perfectly. It's not even an analogy, it's an actual conclusive answer. I don't think you even know the meaning of the word analogy.

You want civilisation? You can make one, cuz it's a sandbox. You want competition? Create it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want fair play? Balance it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want social cooperation? Create the content that requires it, it's a sandbox. You want a clown show? Then stage one, cuz it's a sandbox. The 'character' of the game is created by the players. I don't need anyone to conform to crap because I'm playing my own game with my own goals. You should try doing that yourself and stop trying to get everyone to conform to your 'infinite moral superiority' and you might enjoy the game more.

The question itself is poorly phrased, because it limits EVE to only a few possibilities, but EVE is more than you give it credit for. That's why you fail.

The most amusing thing about this post is that you actually think its reasonable.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4411 - 2014-03-27 05:32:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.


Yes it does. It answers it perfectly. It's not even an analogy, it's an actual conclusive answer. I don't think you even know the meaning of the word analogy.

You want civilisation? You can make one, cuz it's a sandbox. You want competition? Create it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want fair play? Balance it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want social cooperation? Create the content that requires it, it's a sandbox. You want a clown show? Then stage one, cuz it's a sandbox. The 'character' of the game is created by the players. I don't need anyone to conform to crap because I'm playing my own game with my own goals. You should try doing that yourself and stop trying to get everyone to conform to your 'infinite moral superiority' and you might enjoy the game more.

The question itself is poorly phrased, because it limits EVE to only a few possibilities, but EVE is more than you give it credit for. That's why you fail.

The most amusing thing about this post is that you actually think its reasonable.


What's not reasonable about it? Seems fine to me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4412 - 2014-03-27 05:32:42 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Everyone knows emotional pain is real, and depending on what it is can be worse than physical pain.


Being made fun of on the internet is not, in any way shape or form, analogous to real torture.

Ever. I don't care if you lose your space pixels or not.


Of course it can be analogous to real torture. Not the sword in the fire with a back drop of an iron maiden type of torture. We'll leave that for the fantasy film buffs to cream over.

No: It's more analogous to what is now called enhanced interrogation in the halls of polite and fluffy govt ivory towers. And I should mention that the phrase 'being made fun of' belittles what's actually happening. You can drive the right person to slit their wrists with words alone if your grasp of social manipulation is twisted enough. Or you can bring some right up to that point and then back off to do it over and over until they snap.

How many links would you like to tragic ends for people that have been 'made fun of' on the internet. Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? I can link them.

Mr Epeen Cool

Indeed. That's why we have a law in Australia called Brodies Law. The 'fun' caused someone so much pain and suffering they took their own life. Easily equivalent to torture, just not physical torture.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kyperion
#4413 - 2014-03-27 05:33:13 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Everyone knows emotional pain is real, and depending on what it is can be worse than physical pain.


Being made fun of on the internet is not, in any way shape or form, analogous to real torture.

Ever. I don't care if you lose your space pixels or not.


Of course it can be analogous to real torture. Not the sword in the fire with a back drop of an iron maiden type of torture. We'll leave that for the fantasy film buffs to cream over.

No: It's more analogous to what is now called enhanced interrogation in the halls of polite and fluffy govt ivory towers. And I should mention that the phrase 'being made fun of' belittles what's actually happening. You can drive the right person to slit their wrists with words alone if your grasp of social manipulation is twisted enough. Or you can bring some right up to that point and then back off to do it over and over until they snap.

How many links would you like to tragic ends for people that have been 'made fun of' on the internet. Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? I can link them.

Mr Epeen Cool


I can also tell you, that its not just 'being made fun of' that can validly be related to torture.

I love my Wife, I pray every day that we die on the same day, but I can tell you right now, If either one of us survives the other... for a very long time that would feel like 'torture'... The emotional pain of living beyond someone you love... or even being seperated from them.. that is real, and it hurts.

I doubt that Kaarous Aldurald or Remiel Pollard have reached the age when the pain of death has stung their lives.

Either that or they lack all sense of human empathy and truly are lost.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#4414 - 2014-03-27 05:34:12 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Everyone knows emotional pain is real, and depending on what it is can be worse than physical pain.

Those that don't accept this are stupid, or so afraid of physical pain that they must not step outside their bubblewrap.

The overall point, is every collection of humanity, if it is to be civilized, free, and equitable must be based on the Rule of Law.

It is time for CCP's Lord of the Flies experiment in immaturity to come to end, and with it this whole disgusting chapter in EVE Online. It is time for scamming to come to an end, all forms. Because as long as that type of gameplay is allowed, we will have this kind of filth in our midst.

To the EVE Online Community and CCP make your choice, will you be champions of hard fought competition and civility... or purveyors of barbarity, cowardice and human depravity?



Nice speech, could be longer.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4415 - 2014-03-27 05:34:33 UTC
Kyperion wrote:


I doubt that Kaarous Aldurald or Remiel Pollard have reached the age when the pain of death has stung their lives.



Remember, when you aren't able to address their point directly, attack something you made up about *who* they are instead.

There's a term for that somewhere, not sure what it could be though...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4416 - 2014-03-27 05:34:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Civilization, competition, fair play, social cooperation and the Rule of Law, or a clown show of immaturity,

What does CCP and the larger EVE community want this game to become?







A sandbox.


The 'sandbox' analogy is trite, overused and does not answer the question.


Yes it does. It answers it perfectly. It's not even an analogy, it's an actual conclusive answer. I don't think you even know the meaning of the word analogy.

You want civilisation? You can make one, cuz it's a sandbox. You want competition? Create it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want fair play? Balance it, cuz it's a sandbox. You want social cooperation? Create the content that requires it, it's a sandbox. You want a clown show? Then stage one, cuz it's a sandbox. The 'character' of the game is created by the players. I don't need anyone to conform to crap because I'm playing my own game with my own goals. You should try doing that yourself and stop trying to get everyone to conform to your 'infinite moral superiority' and you might enjoy the game more.

The question itself is poorly phrased, because it limits EVE to only a few possibilities, but EVE is more than you give it credit for. That's why you fail.

The most amusing thing about this post is that you actually think its reasonable.


The most amusing thing about EVE is the players that don't agree.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4417 - 2014-03-27 05:35:17 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Everyone knows emotional pain is real, and depending on what it is can be worse than physical pain.


Being made fun of on the internet is not, in any way shape or form, analogous to real torture.

Ever. I don't care if you lose your space pixels or not.


Of course it can be analogous to real torture. Not the sword in the fire with a back drop of an iron maiden type of torture. We'll leave that for the fantasy film buffs to cream over.

No: It's more analogous to what is now called enhanced interrogation in the halls of polite and fluffy govt ivory towers. And I should mention that the phrase 'being made fun of' belittles what's actually happening. You can drive the right person to slit their wrists with words alone if your grasp of social manipulation is twisted enough. Or you can bring some right up to that point and then back off to do it over and over until they snap.

How many links would you like to tragic ends for people that have been 'made fun of' on the internet. Twenty? Fifty? One hundred? I can link them.

Mr Epeen Cool


I can also tell you, that its not just 'being made fun of' that can validly be related to torture.

I love my Wife, I pray every day that we die on the same day, but I can tell you right now, If either one of us survives the other... for a very long time that would feel like 'torture'... The emotional pain of living beyond someone you love... or even being seperated from them.. that is real, and it hurts.

I doubt that Kaarous Aldurald or Remiel Pollard have reached the age when the pain of death has stung their lives.

Either that or they lack all sense of human empathy and truly are lost.

I'm betting on the latter.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Liese Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4418 - 2014-03-27 05:35:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Not to mention that Erotica and friends were in control of the situation the entire time. Its part of the manipulation to use a calm tone and to remain calm and collected because it contrasts with the victims out of control manner and removes even more control from the victim. Its why people tell you to take a step back or a deep breath in a conflict situation because it helps in regards to recovering some control.

They're manipulative, that's the whole idea of the bonus round.
Exactly. They keep talking about how polite they are, and I've heard them say a few times that there's to be no foul language in the Bonus Room. Gosh, look how reasonable and nice we are; there couldn't be anything wrong with what we're doing! But see that freak over there yelling and swearing? He's obviously the one with the problem.

That whole thing where they were telling Sohkar to take a deep breath or get a class of water or whatever? A show of dominance. We're in charge here, and you're obviously a weakling who's unable to control your emotions, so we're doing you a favor by giving you suggestions on how to calm down.

Roll

Did they really think that people listening to those sessions wouldn't see through this?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4419 - 2014-03-27 05:36:28 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
I can also tell you, that its not just 'being made fun of' that can validly be related to torture.



Kyperion also wrote:
I doubt that Kaarous Aldurald or Remiel Pollard have reached the age when the pain of death has stung their lives.



At least you have the balls to confess to torture then. +1

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#4420 - 2014-03-27 05:37:48 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
I can also tell you, that its not just 'being made fun of' that can validly be related to torture.

I love my Wife, I pray every day that we die on the same day, but I can tell you right now, If either one of us survives the other... for a very long time that would feel like 'torture'... The emotional pain of living beyond someone you love... or even being seperated from them.. that is real, and it hurts.

I doubt that Kaarous Aldurald or Remiel Pollard have reached the age when the pain of death has stung their lives.

Either that or they lack all sense of human empathy and truly are lost


I've heard this somewhere, in a movie or a play..

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk