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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4261 - 2014-03-27 02:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erica Dusette wrote:
I'm sure CCP folks are talking about it (Even Falcon said it's a topic of discussion right now), so as long as the thread stays semi-civil and constructive it's probably a good way of guaging community feelings as well as canvassing arguments and points from as many sources as they can before making any decisions themselves.

Unfortunately it hasn't really been civil since page 1.

Just about every single forum rule has been broken in this thread and in many cases in ways that were not only not productive for this thread, but which will carry over into future threads because of the animosity that has been created or reinforced between some players.

The same arguments and discussions have been had over and over and over. There is very little new coming to the thread now.

I know it's only a day and a half old, so there are still people who won't have seen it yet in order to contribute, but any new contribution is going to fit into one of the existing groups of opinion.

There doesn't appear to be much reason to keep the thread open and I certainly hope it doesn't remain open until CCP form an opinion. We are still waiting on opinions from some of the threadnaughts of last year.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#4262 - 2014-03-27 02:41:56 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
I'm sure CCP folks are talking about it (Even Falcon said it's a topic of discussion right now), so as long as the thread stays semi-civil and constructive it's probably a good way of guaging community feelings as well as canvassing arguments and points from as many sources as they can before making any decisions themselves.

Unfortunately it hasn't really been civil since page 1.

Just about every single forum rule has been broken in this thread and in many cases in ways that were not only not productive for this thread, but which will carry over into future threads because of the animosity that has been created or reinforced between some players.

The same arguments and discussions have been had over and over and over. There is very little new coming to the thread now.

I know it's only a day and a half old, so there are still people who won't have seen it yet in order to contribute, but any new contribution is going to fit into one of the existing groups of opinion.

There doesn't appear to be much reason to keep the thread open and I certainly hope it doesn't remain open until CCP form an opinion. We are still waiting on opinions from some of the threadnaughts of last year.

Yeah, you're probably right lol

In any event though it's a focus point I guess. Even while this thread exists people are creating multiple others surrounding the same topic. Keeping this thread open while the issue is still "hot" at least gives the community a place to vent or voice their opinions on the topic at hand; Pretty standard moderation tactic - keep one thread open for the wailing and fighting, close all the other things.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4263 - 2014-03-27 02:42:09 UTC
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-nazi guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4264 - 2014-03-27 02:43:29 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


Hurt feelings are not real harm, and are not analogous to real harm.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4265 - 2014-03-27 02:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"
It's clear you are very passionate about this issue and you've gone beyond just posting to also take action out of the forum.

Those aspects, no matter which side of the many fences anyone sits, are exactly what helps make this community great.

But at a point, the continual comparison of this to real life **** and to treatment of the handicapped starts to border on something else that is not all together positive itself.

Even with your strong feelings on this, is it possible to tone the language back a bit? Real life ****, torture and abuse of people with disabilities are separate issues, each of which are abhorrent.

This doesn't need to share language with those issues, because doing so is starting to take away from the message you are trying to get across.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#4266 - 2014-03-27 02:47:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Hurt feelings are not real harm, and are not analogous to real harm.


He does not get it, and many many adults in this conversation have been trying to explain it to him for like, 200 pages now. You're beating a dead horse. Move on.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#4267 - 2014-03-27 02:49:41 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I know it's only a day and a half old, so there are still people who won't have seen it yet in order to contribute, but any new contribution is going to fit into one of the existing groups of opinion.


no, there's a 3rd group now
the **** Ripard Teg group.

if it wasn't for the way he worded his stupid blog to make it out like a propaganda, this thread would barely reach this size, he did more damage than anyone else.


Quote:
Even with your strong feelings on this, is it possible to tone the language back a bit. Real life ****, torture and abuse of people with disabilities is a separate issue, each of which is abhorrent.

This doesn't need to share language with those issues.


but how else can they rally up the bandwagon and have EvE citizens carrying the torch that shall light the path to freedom of the tyranny and abuse of the bonus round!

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4268 - 2014-03-27 02:49:57 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Hurt feelings are not real harm, and are not analogous to real harm.


He does not get it, and many many adults in this conversation have been trying to explain it to him for like, 200 pages now. You're beating a dead horse. Move on.


And let Ripard and his meat puppets have an echo chamber? Psh, I have nothing better to do, I had to repair my client today and it's taking figuratively forever.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4269 - 2014-03-27 02:50:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


Hurt feelings are not real harm, and are not analogous to real harm.


Not saying that I agree with Luminous, but good God are you that naive. Hurt feelings are not real harm?

LOL never been with a real woman, have you?

Mr Epeen Cool
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4270 - 2014-03-27 02:50:59 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"



'emotional harm?'
'handicapped?'
hmm? Have you any proof of these accusations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4271 - 2014-03-27 02:51:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ila Dace wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Anger is an excuse for death threats and racism. Man, those *** guys must be continually pissed.

While I hate to use a real life example, I'll do it here. It's like self defense. You can defend your self against someone else trying to hurt you, but there is a limit to that. A guy slaps you in the face makes you angry and justifies self defense, but thats no reason to kill the guy, chop him up , kidnap his family and force feed his remains to them (srry, was watcing Southpark).

More than once I've seen someone go too far in self defense (like for example chasing down a guy who snatched an iphone, getting the iphone back the procedding to stomp the theif to the point where he ends up with brain damage and multiple broken bones) and the result has been the appropriate one: the original attacker is usually convicted where as the person who went too far gets even more time.

That's what should happen here. If somehting happens to Erotica1 (and well, who knows, it might be justified), the racist guy throwing real life death threats should get even more.


Yes.
But your real life analogy is not accurate.

E1 was not harmed here.
You can say whatever you want, but no harm came of this to Erotica 1.

The one and only harmed person, here, is the gullible man called Sokhar.
He was provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of.


No one said anything about Erotica1 being hurt, HOWEVER Erotica1 was subjected to death threats, which is WAY worse than losing some video game assets because you were greedy.

That is the point. Sohkar or whatever his name was had a right to be mad. He had no right to break the law and spew racist abuse at anyone. He went too far.

To proper thing to have done was tell erotica1 to go screw himself (which isn't a threat but rather a fun at home activity) and disconnect. That he did not makes his actions more reprehensible than anything Erotica1 did or could have done.

*Cough* "Proximate cause"


Proximate cause doesn't give you the right to break the law or over-react. If someone runs a red light and hits another car and the driver of the car that got hit beheads the other guy and wears his skull as a helmet, can he claim 'proximate cause' and not get locked up for the rest of his days lol?

As I said, there is no level of provocation that can justify death threats and racial abuse.

If the driver that ran the red light hits the other car to keep the guy from escaping because he's been psychologically torturing him for a few days, yes.

The proximate cause of the death threats and racial epithets was the the psychological torture. Therefore, the blame falls squarely on Erotica1's shoulders.

But you knew that.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4272 - 2014-03-27 02:51:55 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


Again, this is the kind of thinking that makes the world worse. Now pay close attention, because I'm going to tell you why any **** analogy is really bad, and an indication of an emotional reaction rather than rational thought.

Bonus room = consensual, right from the very beginning when you CHOOSE to hand over ISK and assests. You cannot coerce someone with their stuff if they gave you all there stuff freely and willingly. You are entirely responsible for making the choice to hand of your isk and assets.

**** = non-consensual. The woman never gets a choice. The woman is never responsible for what she goes through here.

Now go to your room for ten minutes and have a think about what you've said. Maybe smoke a bud or something to calm down.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#4273 - 2014-03-27 02:53:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

And let Ripard and his meat puppets have an echo chamber? Psh, I have nothing better to do, I had to repair my client today and it's taking figuratively forever.


Hey, that makes sense.

I hope Ripard gets banned from this, as I expressed in a earlier post.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4274 - 2014-03-27 02:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Ila Dace wrote:


The proximate cause of the death threats and racial epithets was the the psychological torture. Therefore, the blame falls squarely on Erotica1's shoulders.



No it doesn't. Sokhar showed a lack of self control. All it takes is a little personal responsibility and you'll never use racial slurs or death threats no matter how angry or upset someone 'makes' you.

There is no justification for death threats, threats of violence, discriminatory speech, etc. None whatsoever.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4275 - 2014-03-27 02:56:22 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


Hurt feelings are not real harm, and are not analogous to real harm.


Not saying that I agree with Luminous, but good God are you that naive. Hurt feelings are not real harm?

LOL never been with a real woman, have you?

Mr Epeen Cool


Real harm is physical harm. You know, like torture.

Or the numerous people here, including our friend Luminous, who have suggested that real life violence is the solution to being made fun of on the internet.

That's real harm. That hurts real people.

What is NOT real harm is some fool giving away his space pixels and getting upset over his loss of videogame money.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Genseric Tollaris
Hard Cog Industry
#4276 - 2014-03-27 02:56:28 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"
It's clear you are very passionate about this issue and you've gone beyond just posting to also take action out of the forum.

Those aspects, no matter which side of the many fences anyone sits, are exactly what helps make this community great.

But at a point, the continual comparison of this to real life **** and to treatment of the handicapped starts to border on something else that is not all together positive itself.

Even with your strong feelings on this, is it possible to tone the language back a bit? Real life ****, torture and abuse of people with disabilities are separate issues, each of which are abhorrent.

This doesn't need to share language with those issues, because doing so is starting to take away from the message you are trying to get across.


At this point I just think he's just trolling.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#4277 - 2014-03-27 02:56:51 UTC
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:
Dieterlin wrote:
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:
If we assume the whole conversation happened ingame, what was broken in the EULA? Please show me the paragraph(s) explaining.


Section 6, Part A "Specifically Restricted Conduct", Section 5.

EULA wrote:
You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-party’s intellectual property rights.


Ero1 definitely conducted "harassing behavior" outside the scope of normal gameplay, and the victim made threatening comments. Both of them should be banned.



The only person to use threats was Sohkar, I have listened to the sound clip from start to finish. Erotica 1 never raised his voice and never threatened anyone, was not obscene, did not harass, was not abusive or defamatory.


uhhh.... did you miss the part where he linked the soundcloud on EO forums?

If that ain't defamatory i don't know what is

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Space Juden
Supermassive Potato Pancake
#4278 - 2014-03-27 02:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Juden
It's true that if he had reacted differently we would have never even known it happened. But he broke under pressure. I think the accent ordeal took a heavy toll on him.
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4279 - 2014-03-27 02:59:53 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


You keep making that comparison. You are no better than the very people you are so quick to condemn
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4280 - 2014-03-27 03:00:16 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
This is emotional rapists trying to justify what they do by staging a show that, no, victims are not really hurt at all.

E1 thinks its OK to inflict emotional damage on handicapped people. "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"

Neo-**** guys down the road in a seedy bar think its OK to **** a girl too "its just a bit of fun, no real harm done, nobody dies"


Again, this is the kind of thinking that makes the world worse. Now pay close attention, because I'm going to tell you why any **** analogy is really bad, and an indication of an emotional reaction rather than rational thought.

Bonus room = consensual, right from the very beginning when you CHOOSE to hand over ISK and assests. You cannot coerce someone with their stuff if they gave you all there stuff freely and willingly. You are entirely responsible for making the choice to hand of your isk and assets.

**** = non-consensual. The woman never gets a choice. The woman is never responsible for what she goes through here.

Now go to your room for ten minutes and have a think about what you've said. Maybe smoke a bud or something to calm down.


According to you,

Slavery is consensual. Slave can always walk away right?
Domestic abuse is totally OK. Wife can always walk away right?
Sex trafficking is OK - the girl can awlays refuse to work.

Its funny how predators always try to justify their sickening actions. And they never mention the consequences for 'walking away'.

Let me spell it out for you.

If a person is threatened with losing something by walking away - that's coercion buddy. Whether it is physical safety in case of ****, or life in case of slavery, or internet isk, its irrelevant. Coercion is coercion.

And to do this to a vulnerable person....

Sickening.

There is NOTHING that separates people that do this from real-life pedophiles, rapists, murderers and slavers of the world.

And people like that should all suffer the same punishment IMHO.