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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#4081 - 2014-03-27 00:15:45 UTC
I say, first thing we do... is kill all the Internet lawyers.


/and armchair psychoanalysts




☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4082 - 2014-03-27 00:16:08 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
words


TLDR I have nothing to say other than what I already said
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4083 - 2014-03-27 00:16:53 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been staying out of this thread partially because I've already given my opinions on this matter on my blog, partially to let players hash it out without it becoming about me, and partially because I have a damn hard time following EVE-O forum threads because of the way the software is designed.

I do have to say that I'm utterly stunned at the size of this thread. Without realizing it, I've clearly tapped into a vast river of player feeling about EVE Online culture and where that culture should go in the future. I don't shy away from that. I'm glad this conversation is happening. I also want to stress right out front that I am not anti-scam, anti-suicide gank, anti-non-consensual PvP, or anti-gray areas in EVE. I am for all of these things and anyone who tells you different is lying or wrong.

But there are limits. And Erotica 1 and his "agents" have crossed them.

I want to thank everyone who sent me e-mails or EVE mails in support of my blog post. My position on this matter remains unchanged. Erotica 1 and his "agents" have no place in the EVE Online community. This isn't about scamming people. Scamming people is fine and I have no problem with it. But in the bonus room, in ten minutes the scam is OVER. The scammers have won. It's the other 135 or more minutes that I object to. Why do they have to prolong this sick, reprehensible behavior to these lengths? Why do they have to do it to dozens or hundreds of people? Why do they have to train a small army of people to do it? When is enough enough?

I feel CCP should permaban Erotica 1 and seize all of his assets to send a clear and strong message that this kind of activity will simply not be tolerated in the EVE Online community. Then turn on his "agents": temp bans, asset seizures, and negative ISK balances there. The agents will be simple enough to track down: pull Erotica 1's wallet. Assume everyone who sends him a large amount of ISK is a victim. Investigate contracts created by those victims. Anyone to whom a contract is sent is a target to be investigated.

Again, this isn't about the scams. Scams are fine. This is about sick, reprehensible behavior and psychological harassment of CCP's customers. CCP has the right to protect their customers and decide what is and what is not acceptable behavior in New Eden. CCP: please make it clear for EVE's second decade that this kind of thing is simply unacceptable in our community.

That's all. Thanks again to everyone involved in this discussion! I'm glad it's taking place. I'll continue to try to keep up as best I can.


Plus One for Ripard, sad to see you not running for the next CSM, who else will bring these situations to CCP's attention directly once your gone.

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#4084 - 2014-03-27 00:17:30 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:


Again, this isn't about the scams. Scams are fine. This is about sick, reprehensible behavior and psychological harassment of CCP's customers. CCP has the right to protect their customers and decide what is and what is not acceptable behavior in New Eden. CCP: please make it clear for EVE's second decade that this kind of thing is simply unacceptable in our community.



i second this.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4085 - 2014-03-27 00:17:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
dexington wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
He could also be angry at E1, but most of his anger should have been at himself for being dumb.


Great logic... you should join the bonus round table of interviewers, i can easily pictures you sitting there telling a person who has just been scammed out of everything and ridiculed for hours, that he should be angry at himself for being a dumb ****...



I absolutly will. Because that's what's wonrg with people, they always want to blame others for their failures.

The problem with blaming others is that you never learn to stop doing the dumb crap you were doing.


So you will tell the person getting scammed he is a dumb ****, but you don't need to tell the person who needlessly spends hours humiliating and ridiculing him that what he is doing is ****** up.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#4086 - 2014-03-27 00:18:12 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been staying out of this thread partially because I've already given my opinions on this matter on my blog, partially to let players hash it out without it becoming about me, and partially because I have a damn hard time following EVE-O forum threads because of the way the software is designed.

I do have to say that I'm utterly stunned at the size of this thread. Without realizing it, I've clearly tapped into a vast river of player feeling about EVE Online culture and where that culture should go in the future. I don't shy away from that. I'm glad this conversation is happening. I also want to stress right out front that I am not anti-scam, anti-suicide gank, anti-non-consensual PvP, or anti-gray areas in EVE. I am for all of these things and anyone who tells you different is lying or wrong.

But there are limits. And Erotica 1 and his "agents" have crossed them.

I want to thank everyone who sent me e-mails or EVE mails in support of my blog post. My position on this matter remains unchanged. Erotica 1 and his "agents" have no place in the EVE Online community. This isn't about scamming people. Scamming people is fine and I have no problem with it. But in the bonus room, in ten minutes the scam is OVER. The scammers have won. It's the other 135 or more minutes that I object to. Why do they have to prolong this sick, reprehensible behavior to these lengths? Why do they have to do it to dozens or hundreds of people? Why do they have to train a small army of people to do it? When is enough enough?

I feel CCP should permaban Erotica 1 and seize all of his assets to send a clear and strong message that this kind of activity will simply not be tolerated in the EVE Online community. Then turn on his "agents": temp bans, asset seizures, and negative ISK balances there. The agents will be simple enough to track down: pull Erotica 1's wallet. Assume everyone who sends him a large amount of ISK is a victim. Investigate contracts created by those victims. Anyone to whom a contract is sent is a target to be investigated.

Again, this isn't about the scams. Scams are fine. This is about sick, reprehensible behavior and psychological harassment of CCP's customers. CCP has the right to protect their customers and decide what is and what is not acceptable behavior in New Eden. CCP: please make it clear for EVE's second decade that this kind of thing is simply unacceptable in our community.

That's all. Thanks again to everyone involved in this discussion! I'm glad it's taking place. I'll continue to try to keep up as best I can.


Ladies and Gentleman I am currently accepting donations on behalf of Sohkar in regards the infamous Erotica 1 debacle. Anything you can donate will be presented to Sohkar on his return to eve online.

Ripard Teg is all for Sohkar showing off an orange jumpsuit.

OMG a scammer in a discussion about a scammer...is it a E. alt?

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4087 - 2014-03-27 00:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Simyaldee
Dieterlin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:




Last i checked it's not illegal to be rascist or homophobic, just socially unacceptable,

Oh wait thats what this entire thread is about....

Cultural and social acceptabilities in an online game...

...

...
/enlightenment



it IS illegal (against the rules) in EVE online to be racist and homophobic. If the person who didn't break the rules (E1) should be punished, the guy who did break the rules should be punished more severly.

And death threats are illegal (against the law) everywhere I know of.


In the EULA, under "Specifically Restricted Conduct":

EULA wrote:
You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-party’s intellectual property rights.


Now, if Ero1's teamspeak falls under this section of the EULA, both Ero1 and the victim should be banned. Ero1 is clearly harassing other players ("behaviour intended to disturb or upset" outside of normal gameplay) and the victim is clearly making threats.

If Ero1's teamspeak isn't covered by the EULA, then it's completely up to CCP's judgement what happens next.

But you really can't say that E1 is "the person who didn't break the rules", because either they both did or they both didn't.


Thank you for finding that! Somewhat undercuts the argument that Erotica 1's actions weren't against the EULA.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4396444#post4396444

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4088 - 2014-03-27 00:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Kashuken
Either way, when will CCP make a statement?

Forum mods have obviously been instructed to leave this thread alone, especially given the sheer amount of trolling that is going on, when elsewhere they act very efficiently.

The other threads on this were locked, indicating that CCP were aware of the issue and discussing it.

In 200+ pages all we have is people on either side entrenching themselves in their positions - any attempt at a discussion long since left the building.

Enough is enough - CCP have known about this for years. Either way, there is one thing clear from this thread - the community wants a decision on this.

Edit: spelling error.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4089 - 2014-03-27 00:20:23 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Simyaldee wrote:
However I also condemn those who may or may not have Blackmailed Erotica 1 for one reason or another.


There's blackmail, & then there's linking your Amazon.com profile in an EVE chat that you later post on to a public pastebin which reveals some pretty nasty things about that guy you thought was only getting people to rub mayonaise on their chest.


If someone wanted to make it public they could make it public, contacting Erotica and threatening to out him if he doesn't do what you say is blackmail, Although I wouldn't be surprised by much of what Erotica does at this point.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4396444#post4396444


You seem to have missed the very obvious point that I made. There was no blackmail & the information that Erotica 1 claims he was being blackmailed over was made public by Erotica 1 himself, ironically by being stupid.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4090 - 2014-03-27 00:21:56 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Hi everyone,
...


One thing you didn't address Ripard is what you believe should happen in response to the actions and behaviour of the victim of the scam in this particular case.

Ban one side, but what about the other side here?
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#4091 - 2014-03-27 00:22:12 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
I say, first thing we do... is kill all the Internet lawyers.


/and armchair psychoanalysts





I say, first thing we do... is kill all the lawyers.

fixed it for you

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4092 - 2014-03-27 00:23:07 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Hi everyone,
...


One thing you didn't address Ripard is what you believe should happen in response to the actions and behaviour of the victim of the scam in this particular case.

Ban one side, but what about the other side here?


Indeed. A point which he has refrained from bringing up completely. Witch Hunt anyone???

oh btw.

Ladies and Gentleman I am currently accepting donations on behalf of Sohkar in regards the infamous Erotica 1 debacle. Anything you can donate will be presented to Sohkar on his return to eve online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Genseric Tollaris
Hard Cog Industry
#4093 - 2014-03-27 00:23:42 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Dribble


You're a weasel and a grass. You should be removed as csm and given a temp ban for dragging other players into the public light, namely Sohkar and his racist ranting and racial abuse of another Eve player. Whatever happens out of this, if Ero gets it, you and Sokhar had better bloody well get it too.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#4094 - 2014-03-27 00:24:04 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:


That's all. Thanks again to everyone involved in this discussion! I'm glad it's taking place. I'll continue to try to keep up as best I can.




Care to comment?

And apologies on butchering your name.

I know you wouldn't expect apologies from me, being a "sociopath" and all, but it was how your name was originally relayed to me, because frankly, I did not know you before then.

Probably because I didn't vote for you.

Who remembers these things.

vOv

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4095 - 2014-03-27 00:24:12 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Simyaldee wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Simyaldee wrote:
However I also condemn those who may or may not have Blackmailed Erotica 1 for one reason or another.


There's blackmail, & then there's linking your Amazon.com profile in an EVE chat that you later post on to a public pastebin which reveals some pretty nasty things about that guy you thought was only getting people to rub mayonaise on their chest.


If someone wanted to make it public they could make it public, contacting Erotica and threatening to out him if he doesn't do what you say is blackmail, Although I wouldn't be surprised by much of what Erotica does at this point.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4396444#post4396444


You seem to have missed the very obvious point that I made. There was no blackmail & the information that Erotica 1 claims he was being blackmailed over was made public by Erotica 1 himself, ironically by being stupid.


I apologize, I read Erotica's post on the matter and assumed that the specific issue used to 'blackmail' him was made in private and then used to influence under threat of exposure. If he himself had already made this public enough, he should have been immune to blackmail in the first place. Although I wonder what could possibly make a person who willingly Abuse's somebody to the length that he did and shows no remorse, afraid of being rediculed for his actions.

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#4096 - 2014-03-27 00:24:42 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been staying out of this thread partially because I've already given my opinions on this matter on my blog, partially to let players hash it out without it becoming about me, and partially because I have a damn hard time following EVE-O forum threads because of the way the software is designed.

I do have to say that I'm utterly stunned at the size of this thread. Without realizing it, I've clearly tapped into a vast river of player feeling about EVE Online culture and where that culture should go in the future. I don't shy away from that. I'm glad this conversation is happening. I also want to stress right out front that I am not anti-scam, anti-suicide gank, anti-non-consensual PvP, or anti-gray areas in EVE. I am for all of these things and anyone who tells you different is lying or wrong.

But there are limits. And Erotica 1 and his "agents" have crossed them.

I want to thank everyone who sent me e-mails or EVE mails in support of my blog post. My position on this matter remains unchanged. Erotica 1 and his "agents" have no place in the EVE Online community. This isn't about scamming people. Scamming people is fine and I have no problem with it. But in the bonus room, in ten minutes the scam is OVER. The scammers have won. It's the other 135 or more minutes that I object to. Why do they have to prolong this sick, reprehensible behavior to these lengths? Why do they have to do it to dozens or hundreds of people? Why do they have to train a small army of people to do it? When is enough enough?

I feel CCP should permaban Erotica 1 and seize all of his assets to send a clear and strong message that this kind of activity will simply not be tolerated in the EVE Online community. Then turn on his "agents": temp bans, asset seizures, and negative ISK balances there. The agents will be simple enough to track down: pull Erotica 1's wallet. Assume everyone who sends him a large amount of ISK is a victim. Investigate contracts created by those victims. Anyone to whom a contract is sent is a target to be investigated.

Again, this isn't about the scams. Scams are fine. This is about sick, reprehensible behavior and psychological harassment of CCP's customers. CCP has the right to protect their customers and decide what is and what is not acceptable behavior in New Eden. CCP: please make it clear for EVE's second decade that this kind of thing is simply unacceptable in our community.

That's all. Thanks again to everyone involved in this discussion! I'm glad it's taking place. I'll continue to try to keep up as best I can.


Ladies and Gentleman I am currently accepting donations on behalf of Sohkar in regards the infamous Erotica 1 debacle. Anything you can donate will be presented to Sohkar on his return to eve online.

Ripard Teg is all for Sohkar showing off an orange jumpsuit.



Navi, I'm going to send you some mayo for you and E1 to share. I have a feeling you both might need it.

I would imagine that when and if E1's nasty personal life is exposed and he becomes an object of ridicule you may want to thank me. I wonder what was so shameful that he scurried right off to address it, leaving you here to hold the bag?

Of course because this is all happening out of game it's kosher, right?

I mean he volunteered the info, who could be that stupid?! The TOS wasn't violated, he VOLUNTARILY left his personal info out on the internet so also no laws were broken. He is going to man up and take the consequences.

Damned shame really... remind me to tell you again how thin that blanket you cling to is...

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Anslo
Scope Works
#4097 - 2014-03-27 00:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Genseric Tollaris wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Dribble


You're a weasel and a grass. You should be removed as csm and given a temp ban for dragging other players into the public light, namely Sohkar and his racist ranting and racial abuse of another Eve player. Whatever happens out of this, if Ero gets it, you and Sokhar had better bloody well get it too.


He better get a ******* medal for having the balls to call bullshit as it is. But keep trying to be edgy bro, you'll get it on day.

Ripard, you done good.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#4098 - 2014-03-27 00:26:33 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Tear Jar wrote:
I know right? We are easily going to get over 100 pages in under 24 hours. If this keeps up for a few days, the thread will be setting Eve records.


This thread might last for DAYS?

Ill get my paint shop monkeys making more sheep pictures. We are going to need them.


Just updating. One day later and instead of slowing down, posting in this thread is only accelerating.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4099 - 2014-03-27 00:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: olan2005
Scipio Artelius wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
Then ill adjust it

Make so when scamming individual players and or griefing individual players you can only use IN-GAME mechanisms
E.G i decide o become a scammer

I choose to scam a person out of their isk and assets . I use out of game mechanisms to do so it is illegal

E.G I decide to be a spy or thief within a corp/ alliance

I use out of game mechanisms like Teamspeak . This is fine as my intent is to steal from a corporation, and inflict financial damage to a in-game entity , that consists of real people , but it is not specifically directed at them . It is done with the purpose of theft of goods not to DELIBERATELY cause someone psychological harm. Or it is done to benefit my alliance not out of intent to cause the poeple in said corp/alliance duress.


So what about a forum on the Corps blog run on a third party. Even a 1-person Corp that has a blog and allows comments.

Is the awoxer not allowed to take part in any activity associated with that as part of his process?

On the deliberately done to cause psychological harm, who determines the motives?


the motive issue is going to be gray area. Would probably have to go on a case By case bases. Still while the awoker is in corp he should be allowed to use teamspeak so forth to participate. But after the awox He should not be allowed to go on teamspeak and insult and harass players for hours on end . A scammer however should keep his activities in-game for accountability reasons , so that CCP can review what transpired and handle any complaints. scamming is different awox as it's player to player. Not player to corp as is the usual case with awoxing
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4100 - 2014-03-27 00:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Drone 16 wrote:
I mean he volunteered the info, who could be that stupid?! The TOS wasn't violated, he VOLUNTARILY left his personal info out on the internet so also no laws were broken. He is going to man up and take the consequences.

Damned shame really... remind me to tell you again how thin that blanket you cling to is...
I'm not sure we have enough information either way to confirm the facts?

After all, what we have is the comment of a former GSF member and the comment of a current Goon.

Does that really give us enough information to know the truth and be able to sling mud in either direction?