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Jester Trek Latest Blog

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3381 - 2014-03-26 18:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Navi Annages wrote:


Chief your missing the point. The game does not matter. The context is what is more serious. Laughs at another expense or death threats?

Death Threats are felony offenses.


Death threats are illegal both in the System and in real life, chief.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#3382 - 2014-03-26 18:51:50 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:


And you base this on the fact that you don't like something and a blog you half understood.

I've scammed people in Eve Online, but because you disagree with my style of game-play I'm automatically an IRL criminal?

So, you're argument, essentially, would allow me to think of you as a real-life pedophile, rapist, online predator, pimp, terrorist, and/or drug dealer if I didn't like your style of game-play. Alright, you do some J-space and Nullsec stuff... I think that makes you an IRL terrorist. I'm calling the space FBI on you!!!!1111oneone.


+1 to this.

I'm tired of people not understanding that Eve online is a game, and it's a rather dark game. This character will gank miners if he feels like it, engage in acts of piracy if he feels the risk vs. reward ratio is favorable, and spends 90% of his play time murdering other players and usually is the one to fire first.

In real life - I like kittens, movies, and music. I've never engaged in a act of real world violence against anyone, and the thought of people hurting each other disgusts me.

Like it or not, players - read your lore. Eve is a really dark place, and it's not for the faint of heart. It's a rather bleak future, and I would not have it any other way. Just look at the discussions taking place here - about morality, in game vs. out of game issues, etc.... you don't see World Of Snorecraft spawning this type of reaction.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3383 - 2014-03-26 18:52:24 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Since I'm onto analogies:

Game shows are known for humiliating or otherwise embarrassing contestants, which is fine if the contestants know what they're getting into. The more extreme the humiliation/pressure, the better the ratings.

However, if a contestant were to completely break down and start screaming obscenities and engaging in unpleasantries, how many game shows would still air that episode? More importantly, why would a game show censor themselves like that? The answer is normally "community standards", i.e. society has ideas about how much humiliation is too much, and the game show is aware of that.


In that light, should Erotica1 have published that particular bonus room?



Ever hear of the Jerry Springer show?

Following your analogy: Are gamehosts jailed when their contestants display mental instability? Should they be?

If you want to change the rules to prohibit the 'bonus room,' fine, heck I'd support that. But many in this thread aren't asking for that, rather, they are demanding an individual be banned based on their feelings alone.
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3384 - 2014-03-26 18:52:31 UTC
Feyth Yinleq wrote:
More than 150 pages of posts and nothing constructive yet.

I said what I had to say earlier. I had to puke multiple times because of the pretendingly honest posts from Erotica 1.
But I will not join the debates again.

Now, I am waiting for CCP to share with us what they have decided on this matter. I am quite surprised it took them so long, especially as they were aware of this recording for one entire month, as it appears to be.

Having not seen a significant word from them yet, I am inclined to believe they don't care and will endorse what happened eventually. As I will certainly not find my place in a community ready to welcome such behaviors without raising an eyebrow, I have to act by the only mean of action that could potentially be effective, my wallet.

So, I am starting the count down now: 20 hours till I cancel my accounts definitely.

I know, this desperate move is useless, but all that evil needs to prevail is for the good men to do nothing, I am sure you know this quote.
And no, you cannot have my stuff, without any sign of CCP within 20 hours, I will trash and biomass everything in a final demonstration of the lack of value of virtual assets in a game. We shouldn't have had to discuss for more than 150 pages here, as there is no admittable debate to have when the dignity of a human being and the decency of a community are at stake.


I unfortunately suspect you're right and the CCP will not take action - simply because it's the easy thing to do. They probably expect this to "blow over", and may be right. Unfortunately. I'll continue to play EVE regardless (though on-and-off), but this event has certainly put a bad taste in my mouth and I'll lose respect for the people behind the platform if they fail to do anything.

But let's face it - CCP is a tiny company - they should be able to move at lightning speed - and we've seen nothing from them yet. Couple that with the fact that this isn't a completely new issue, I suspect nothing will happen.

Do nothing is always the easy way out, but rarely the right one. What's that old B-school case about Tylenol or some other drug? I believe this was an instance where some of their shelf products had been contaminated or poisoned (I forget the specifics). The Company had the option of doing nothing, as this would likely have blown over and be kept out of the broader public eye. Instead, the publicized it, warned people to not buy their product while they investigated/restocked. The public reacted swiftly: the Company's actions boosted confidence in the integrity/safety of the product and drove material boost in sales once the product was back on shelf. A poster-child case for terrific "crisis management".
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3385 - 2014-03-26 18:52:35 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:


That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.




You're talking about the truly awful behavior of Sohkar, right? Death threats, racist comments, etcetc.

...right?


Stop being such a troll, please, it gets pathetic after a while. I'm talking about the whole incident, you know it. You just get a sick enjoyment from this thread. It's obvious, but adults are are trying to talk here Roll

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits

Mario Putzo
#3386 - 2014-03-26 18:53:37 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
As a CSM he is way out of line. He is a representative of CCP and has taken an internal matter of CCP's and put it on public display, and continues to update it even after CCP has said they are investigating the matter internally.

This clear harassment is in direct violation of not only CCPs EULA, but also many international Harassment Laws. As a CSM member, and representative of CCP, Ripard is way out of line.

Please tell me this is a troll, because most of your posts are quite intelligent.


and what makes you think it isa troll, everything I wrote is true.
Big Lynx
#3387 - 2014-03-26 18:53:51 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Things are getting a little wacky again. Let's see if we can rein it in a bit with a simple question.

Do you feel it's acceptable for a game company to knowingly allow obvious psychopaths to use their product to lure victims into out-of-game situations?

Mr Epeen Cool


Very good question, but sad thing is, that only a tiny minority could give a factual answer here...
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3388 - 2014-03-26 18:54:07 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:


That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.




You're talking about the truly awful behavior of Sohkar, right? Death threats, racist comments, etcetc.

...right?


I'm talking about the whole incident, you know it.


So you're talking about Sohkar's awful behavior, regarding the death threats and racist comments then, right?

I don't think that means we need to restrict games, I think that means we need to restrict death threats and racist comments.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3389 - 2014-03-26 18:54:17 UTC
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:
not everyone supporting erotica1 is wrong. that for sure.

but i can say Navi Annages is the lowest of the low here. wanting to see someone jailed. if it wasnt so sad id laugh hard.


White Knights stand up for a Sohkar and his ethical viewpoints right?

What they always fail to realize is that at the end of the day someone will go down for this. Whether it is E1 or Sohkar. I hope it's sohkar so the White Knights learn there lesson. By not keeping there lil traps shut they will cause Sohkar to goto jail. Hands down death threats are felony charges.

Keep blowing this out of proportion or else Sohkar ends up in prison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU

Brusanan
Free State Project
#3390 - 2014-03-26 18:54:37 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Things are getting a little wacky again. Let's see if we can rein it in a bit with a simple question.

Do you feel it's acceptable for a game company to knowingly allow obvious psychopaths to use their product to lure victims into out-of-game situations?

Mr Epeen Cool

I think it's not up to the game company to decide what consenting adults should/shouldn't do outside of their game.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3391 - 2014-03-26 18:55:13 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Since I'm onto analogies:

Game shows are known for humiliating or otherwise embarrassing contestants, which is fine if the contestants know what they're getting into. The more extreme the humiliation/pressure, the better the ratings.

However, if a contestant were to completely break down and start screaming obscenities and engaging in unpleasantries, how many game shows would still air that episode? More importantly, why would a game show censor themselves like that? The answer is normally "community standards", i.e. society has ideas about how much humiliation is too much, and the game show is aware of that.


In that light, should Erotica1 have published that particular bonus room?



Two interesting points to add to yours for consideration.

Many game shows put their contestants through far, far worse than what happened in this situation. However, just like this case, the "victims" are completely voluntary. Well, actually not all. Some of these shows actually trick people into participating in them, particularly the shows that are attempting to frighten or provoke a strong reaction from the participants.

While they may not air footage of outbursts in their normal time slot (for a variety of reasons) that footage usually does end up seeing the light of day eventually.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#3392 - 2014-03-26 18:55:33 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:


Actually, what he is doing is actually Cyberbullying Erotica 1. But I guess in the minds of the White Knights, the ends justify the means...


THIS.

+1.

And in his confused carebear mind, his lot are the "good guys" - no matter what. Comparing Erotica1 to a terrorist or rapist is totally justified, as he is the "good guy."

It's the kind of morality that I would expect from a seven year old. Seeing it in adults disgusts me, quite frankly.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3393 - 2014-03-26 18:56:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

Do you feel it's acceptable for a game company to knowingly allow obvious psychopaths to use their product to lure victims into out-of-game situations?

Mr Epeen Cool


No Mr. Epeen, I, for one, do not find it acceptable.

I stand for keeping real-life terrorists, rapists, pedophiles, pimps, drug dealers, online predators and such out of EVE. I am sure CCP also holds such a stance.

E1 and friends have to go.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3394 - 2014-03-26 18:58:05 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Do you feel it's acceptable for a game company to knowingly allow obvious psychopaths to use their product to lure victims into out-of-game situations?

Mr Epeen Cool


No Mr. Epeen, I, for one, do not find it acceptable.

I stand for keeping real-life terrorists, rapists, pedophiles, pimps, drug dealers, online predators and such out of EVE. I am sure CCP also holds such a stance.

E1 and friends have to go.


Well guess what they won't be going anywhere. E1 is covered under the TS3 Anonymity blanket. Don't like it then to bad so sad.

Riptar Teg for CSM!!! at the expense of Sohkar going to jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU

LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3395 - 2014-03-26 18:58:11 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:


Keep blowing this out of proportion or else Sohkar ends up in prison.


Desperation. Good. Starting to sink in, is it?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3396 - 2014-03-26 18:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
So, here's my question for the "E1 should be banned!" crowd. Lets say CCP does just that, and bans Ero from EVE. It would be safe to say, at that point, that what you say in third-party comm systems now counts as part of Eve. Where, at that point, do we draw a line?

Lets take my personal bugbear, GLBT and womens rights. The EVE community can be, quite frankly, ugly towards GLBT people. From something as simple as "OMG U R A (insert derogatory term for homosexual), to malicious attacks on transgender people for "lying about being a girl!". I see those acts as waaaay more "cyberbully" than Ero 1.

So, would it be OK for me to demand CCP take action on a person who says "That fit is gay!" on Battleclinic? What about the guy who says on teamspeak "LOL get in the kitchen!" to a female corpie? GLBT/womens rights in gaming is a hot-ticket thing right now, you know. EVE would get a reputation if word got out. The gaming media would have a field day!


/thread.


Amen.

And same here as what Lady has said. I make no secret of being African American . In 7 years I've heard more racism on comms and seen it in game than I have in real life. Hell, sometimes playing EVE has felt a lot like this.

And here we have a situation where a guy (playing a harsh game, usually facilitated across 3rd party comms such as during fleets and events) tricks a another guy out of some imaginary video game items and further tricks him into other stuff trying to get it back. Some want to call it cyber bullying and play sideline lawyer about illegal acts of the 1st guy. They claim that it could be very bad for EVE if someone harms themselves. They even say it would be ok if someone took the law itno their hands and did something to the 1st guy.

All the while totally ignoring the ACTUALLY ILLEGAL and considerably more immoral acts of guy number 2. Cyber bullying (if it happens) might get you in trouble with the law in some jurisdictions. DEATH THREATS will get you put in a jail/prison for a long time.

The same people want action taken on the guy playing the (meta) game as per it's tradition, but think RACISM (you know that thing responsible for the deaths and suffering of millions upon millions upon millions of people over the last 500 years) is "understandable when you are upset".

Those people can kiss my black {insert words for fatty posterior rear sections of a human being} on a warm Texas summer day where the air conditioner is broken.

I do not know Erotica1, i've never had a conversation with him and sometime I think the things he does go a bit too far, but all this hoopla over nothing when someone else is doing worse is BS.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3397 - 2014-03-26 18:59:10 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:


That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.




You're talking about the truly awful behavior of Sohkar, right? Death threats, racist comments, etcetc.

...right?


I'm talking about the whole incident, you know it.


So you're talking about Sohkar's awful behavior, regarding the death threats and racist comments then, right?

I don't think that means we need to restrict games, I think that means we need to restrict death threats and racist comments.



Sigh you are just silly...I like your simplistic repeating of the same phrase over and over. It's that simplicity about you that I really find endearing. Quote that over and over because I sincerely mean it. Maybe use some crayons and scrawl it on your wall. Finally someone likes you. A LOT

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3398 - 2014-03-26 18:59:42 UTC
Katkon Darnok wrote:
Feyth Yinleq wrote:
More than 150 pages of posts and nothing constructive yet.

I said what I had to say earlier. I had to puke multiple times because of the pretendingly honest posts from Erotica 1.
But I will not join the debates again.

Now, I am waiting for CCP to share with us what they have decided on this matter. I am quite surprised it took them so long, especially as they were aware of this recording for one entire month, as it appears to be.

Having not seen a significant word from them yet, I am inclined to believe they don't care and will endorse what happened eventually. As I will certainly not find my place in a community ready to welcome such behaviors without raising an eyebrow, I have to act by the only mean of action that could potentially be effective, my wallet.

So, I am starting the count down now: 20 hours till I cancel my accounts definitely.

I know, this desperate move is useless, but all that evil needs to prevail is for the good men to do nothing, I am sure you know this quote.
And no, you cannot have my stuff, without any sign of CCP within 20 hours, I will trash and biomass everything in a final demonstration of the lack of value of virtual assets in a game. We shouldn't have had to discuss for more than 150 pages here, as there is no admittable debate to have when the dignity of a human being and the decency of a community are at stake.


I unfortunately suspect you're right and the CCP will not take action - simply because it's the easy thing to do. They probably expect this to "blow over", and may be right. Unfortunately. I'll continue to play EVE regardless (though on-and-off), but this event has certainly put a bad taste in my mouth and I'll lose respect for the people behind the platform if they fail to do anything.

But let's face it - CCP is a tiny company - they should be able to move at lightning speed - and we've seen nothing from them yet. Couple that with the fact that this isn't a completely new issue, I suspect nothing will happen.

Do nothing is always the easy way out, but rarely the right one. What's that old B-school case about Tylenol or some other drug? I believe this was an instance where some of their shelf products had been contaminated or poisoned (I forget the specifics). The Company had the option of doing nothing, as this would likely have blown over and be kept out of the broader public eye. Instead, the publicized it, warned people to not buy their product while they investigated/restocked. The public reacted swiftly: the Company's actions boosted confidence in the integrity/safety of the product and drove material boost in sales once the product was back on shelf. A poster-child case for terrific "crisis management".

Contaminated or poisoned medication on store shelves on one hand...
Asked to sing a song on TS on the other...

Your analogy has a few flaws in it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3399 - 2014-03-26 19:00:00 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:
Lastly, I think E1 should remove himself from consideration for the CSM

The CSM thing is just for attention and to promote his scams. This guy is never going to release his RL name to this community where he can be tracked down and have his personal life tied to his relatively anonymous online behavior.


I don't think Erotica 1 can ever stand to have his real life name tied up to his EVE identity. I imagine that some people would be quite keen to establish similarities between both if that happened, which would result in a legal nightmare for him.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3400 - 2014-03-26 19:00:30 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:


That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.




You're talking about the truly awful behavior of Sohkar, right? Death threats, racist comments, etcetc.

...right?


I'm talking about the whole incident, you know it.


So you're talking about Sohkar's awful behavior, regarding the death threats and racist comments then, right?

I don't think that means we need to restrict games, I think that means we need to restrict death threats and racist comments.



Sigh you are just silly...I like your simplistic repeating of the same phrase over and over. It's that simplicity about you that I really find endearing. Quote that over and over because I sincerely mean it. Maybe use some crayons and scrawl it on your wall. Finally someone likes you. A LOT


So you're avoiding the question?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist